Chris Taylor complaining

Chris Taylor complaining

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Zpock
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Joined: 16 Sep 2004, 23:20

Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Zpock »

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/853/853275p1.html
IGN: There are a lot of RTS games being brought over to the console this year. Do you ever see the RTS being as big on the console as it is now on the PC?

Chris Taylor: Well one of the key things that is really affecting the economics and the success of gaming in general is piracy on the PC. So one of the reasons we'll see RTSs on the console is because people can't pirate it. That's why we're going to see a lot more of everything on the console. When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more," you realize that's probably due in large part to piracy. And you realize that a game like Crysis would have done its true numbers if it had launched on console first.

It's just a good business decision to have your game of any kind on a console where you can't pirate it. When you start to refine the control system and you start to take away the barrier of the control system and you start to make that a non-issue, just like we did with first-person shooters, and it becomes more about the game experience and less about the interface, you start to go to the platform where the economics of where the gaming base is.

IGN: Recently there have been many attempts to bring the RTS genre over to the console. Do you think what people learn from that will affect how the PC RTS is made in the future?

Chris Taylor: Well, yeah, because if there's success on the console, people are going to stop making them on the PC because of my earlier point, what's happened on the PC with piracy. The economics are ugly right now on the PC. You're not going to see these gigantic, epic investments of dollars on the PC when it just doesn't work. The economics have to work. You're going to see those investments made on the console side and it's going to become a more console-centric investment. And then you're going to see them ported back over to the PC and that creates a different experience on the PC.

That's just wild, that's just some talking. That's not really any deep thinking on my part. That's kind of like wild speculation, but if I were to guess I don't see RTS games going away at all. People love them too much. They're too much fun. They're like first-person shooters. First-person shooters are obviously doing extraordinarily well on the console and they're not doing very well on the PC. I'm offering now a parallel to that for RTS games.

Right now, if you're a big shooter developer, you're going to lead on a console and you're going to do a PC SKU after. You're not going to be your projections and thinking about your market as your PC. You're going to be thinking about your market on the console. So you're going to focus all of your creativity around your control scheme of your console, your audience of your console, the age group that you're going after on your console and what features they want. You're going to cater to that audience├óÔé¼┬ªIt's going to be market driven.

Right now it's up in the air, but right now the PC market is kind of voting with its dollars, if you will.
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Foxomaniac
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Foxomaniac »

Crysis not selling well due to piracy? Is he thick or what?

Either way, all his points are absolute bullshit.

As the great Yahtzee would say : ChrisT can fuck right off.
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SwiftSpear
Classic Community Lead
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29

Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by SwiftSpear »

COOL! A BIG ROBOT THAT CAN SHOOT LAZERS! LETS MAKE A GAME OUT OF THAT!

Face it guys, sometimes it's just luck.
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Machiosabre
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Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56

Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Machiosabre »

didn't the witcher sell a ton while it didn't even have any online gameplay? that nullifies any piracy argument right there.
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Zpock
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Joined: 16 Sep 2004, 23:20

Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Zpock »

Well, it proves the genius go hand in hand with madness, too bad he only had one stroke of the former.

He has clearly lost it.

Hint: what does crysis and supcom have in common, that #&¤(/ sales?
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SwiftSpear
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by SwiftSpear »

Zpock wrote:Well, it proves the genius go hand in hand with madness, too bad he only had one stroke of the former.

He has clearly lost it.

Hint: what does crysis and supcom have in common, that #&¤(/ sales?
A lack of a solid fan/competitive environment?
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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by KDR_11k »

SwiftSpear wrote:
Zpock wrote:Well, it proves the genius go hand in hand with madness, too bad he only had one stroke of the former.

He has clearly lost it.

Hint: what does crysis and supcom have in common, that #&¤(/ sales?
A lack of a solid fan/competitive environment?
System requirements almost noone can fulfill. With consoles you buy the 250-600$ box and everything runs, for these games you needed a pretty recent PC so the potential userbase was just much smaller.
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rattle
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by rattle »

If the average PC game nowadays just wasn't so mediocre... they're not even worth their money most of the time.
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Peet
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Peet »

Foxomaniac wrote:Crysis not selling well due to piracy? Is he thick or what?
Pretty much...it's got reasonably solid DRM, and the multiplayer is worth the $60 anyway, imo :P
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smoth
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by smoth »

Chris taylor is full of shit, what is killing the PC game industry is crap forcing vista, BUGGY AS ALL FUCK RELEASES, two of which are universe at war and hellgate(at least there was a patch for hgl). Gamers are tired of waiting an hour to install a game patch it then play it only for the game to fucking crash.

it is deplorable and consoles do not have that. I have actually gotten to the point that my PC is for spring and I buy only xbox games because I know they work and i do not have to deal with the install hassle.
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Comp1337
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Comp1337 »

Machiosabre wrote:didn't the witcher sell a ton while it didn't even have any online gameplay? that nullifies any piracy argument right there.
Oh god i love The Witcher
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Zpock
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Zpock »

Maybe if his words are actually true and all those greedy basterds would die off or move to consoles or whatever, we'd be better off. I don't think a lot of good games where made with the "lets see what most people want so we can make money" mindset type of game. It should be "I'm gonna make this game that I want to play, no matter what". Games are art and so are better off the less corrupting money that goes into it.

There's plenty of ways to insure players don't pirate if they really like your game. Worthwhile patches + multiplayer... if someone wants that he's buying the game, if else, maybe the game sucked in the first place? Boho you couldn't rip people off with your rigged demo/reviewers/hype and no return policy.
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Otherside
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Otherside »

chris taylor is talking crap

Blizzard have no problem dominating the online market and keeping sales up (not just in WoW) by offering a online experience so worthwhile that you need to buy the game...
tombom
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Joined: 18 Dec 2005, 20:21

Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by tombom »

The last major game I bought was Supreme Commander and I was Supremely disappointed (LOOol!!!). I still buy games sometimes but mostly indieish stuff from the internet. I agree with smoth about patches. I don't mind waiting for patches to come out and patching but it's ridiculous how badly companies often treat their customers over major bugs in the game that are just ignored. I understand that economics mean it's hard to but it doesn't exactly enthuse me about buying PC games.
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Zpock
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Zpock »

From the GPG forums, this is funny, read the bold parts most else is rambling, he's complaining that the "churn out lots of shitty games" method doesn't work, hilarious:
Caveat, I work in the games industry so... this is a bit of a bone of contention with me:

sandman74 wrote:
Id like to see some hard core statistics rather than just opinions about PC Piracy... If Piracy is such a problem..


I'm always amazed by this kind of view point. PC games, even the very best of them, sell very little compared to console games. Great games sell little, not the shabby ones. Whenever a developer/publisher talks about how piracy is hurting the PC, just as Chris Taylor has done here, random PC gamers stand up en masse and just say that isn't the case.

With no evidence or thought behind the claim other than wishful thinking.

Well, sadly it is the case. Any idiot can tell by casual observation let alone by looking at the dire sales numbers for last year's AAA games and how none of the November blockbusters are in the top 40 game SKUs in the US or the UK right now.

It doesn't really matter what measures developers take. The PC is an open platform. Any protection can be hacked out and the game distributed. PC gamers will throw around the usual justification about expense, how they insist on trying before they buy and other morally bankrupt and completely disprovable arguments (such as price).

Game developers aren't going to argue with you about this. They don't want to end up appearing like 'evil' organisations like the RIAA/MPAA. However they're businesses, they need to go where the money is to continue being employed in the job they enjoy.

But I do for the love of God wish that some percentage of gamers did actually admit "Hey, the PC piracy thing is real" instead of trying to blame everyone else other than themselves for this situation.

PheonixIV wrote:
You should go take a look at the markup on computer games and then come say that again.


This is basically a naive viewpoint as a result of a lack of understanding of economics at play. There is no massive 'mark up' on computer games. There's development costs in the millions of dollars region. Then there's a projection of sales quantity and hopefully the revenue covers development but it's a lot more complicated than that because x number of games don't sell or make money at all. So publishers need to try cover the unprofitable titles from one successful title.

Here's a couple of proofs as to why that whole concept is completely wrong:

1. Game developers and game publishers very rarely make sack wads of cash in the industry. The industry is not a brilliant performer profit wise. The major publishers are publically listed, go see for yourself.
2. Price of individual SKUs has relatively little effect. You halve the price, you sell a 'bit' more. Pricing is a very well understood aspect of the industry. They don't just pluck this stuff out of thin air.

Take SupCom:FA. Great game right? It went bargain bin very shortly after release. It was and continues to be significantly outsold by a full-priced RTS game World in Conflict. SupCom:FA is the better game, SupCom:FA is way cheaper. If price was what it takes, it's sell more according to this logic. But it doesn't.

People want the big, popular, premium titles and they'll pay for it.

Amazingly you hear all the price whinging from PC gamers. PC gamers who have way cheaper games than console gamers. You don't hear console gamers whining about the big prices. Hell, they actually *buy* the game things rather than pirate a cut-price game too!

If you compare the cost of development to retail cost and units sold, computer games stack up the same as other entertainment formats.

PheonixIV wrote:
You should also look at Blizzard, and then say that again.


The fact that there's really only one company in the world that's doing extremely well out of PC gaming not a great argument. In fact WoW has been something of a blight on PC gaming. No one else can get an MMO off the ground, no one else can get WoW players to play (and buy) anything else. Yay for Blizzard, boo for everyone else.
NATURAL SELECTION AT WORK!
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Otherside
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Otherside »

blizzard worked there ass off to 2 dominate 2 markets (MMORPG and RTS)

and there still doing it hats off to them they deserve it and r there for a reason

Chris Taylor shud stop whining and learn from blizzard
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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by KDR_11k »

Take SupCom:FA. Great game right? It went bargain bin very shortly after release. It was and continues to be significantly outsold by a full-priced RTS game World in Conflict. SupCom:FA is the better game, SupCom:FA is way cheaper. If price was what it takes, it's sell more according to this logic. But it doesn't.
Lol. 1. WiC > SupCom: FA, 2. FA was released at bargain bin price right off the bat and 3. how come piracy is killing the SupCom sales but not WiC sales?

But let's put it like that: I bought SupCom out of the bargain bin (15-20├óÔÇÜ┬¼, not sure). If it hadn't got a price drop I wouldn't have bought it. I bought WiC at full price. Guess which I regret more.

Also yeah, the complaint about WoW is funny too. If you want to beat WoW you just need to make a BETTER game. Of course WoW is eating your breakfast, lunch and dinner if you try to compete with a shitty clone that only its game designer could love.

If he thinks console gamers don't complain about prices he's never seen me talk about them.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by PicassoCT »

MissingRant:

Worst of all Piracyversions: IP-Piracy, there are People out there doing Games like SurpremeComander, just better, they have tons of mods and Maps -all that for free and they call it spring. Of course we need the Consoles... i mean, imagine if spring would follow there... Horrors...

Seriously:
This is usually the EndofCarreer Flame of a Professional: He will loose his Company (Bad Sales), he won´t win the Trust of the Shareholders back - so who is guilty. Evil Pirates...


->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI

Pirates United!
tombom
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Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by tombom »

I AM A RETARD THIS POST WAS IDIOTIC
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Machiosabre
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Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56

Re: Chris Taylor complaining

Post by Machiosabre »

thats completely unnecessary tombom.
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