my jack-sense is tingling! - Page 2

my jack-sense is tingling!

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Felix the Cat
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Post by Felix the Cat » 04 Sep 2007, 02:55

neddiedrow wrote:China is not Taiwan. Taiwan is not China.
Seeing as they both consider themselves to be the "real" China, I think you could say that Taiwan is part of China.

(Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China btw.)

The analogue would be if you said "The United States is not Hawaii. Hawaii is not the United States". Hawaii is part of the US but not the entire US. Taiwan is part of China but not all of China.
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Neddie
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Post by Neddie » 04 Sep 2007, 04:38

However, they are not one and the same - my statement still stands.
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Felix the Cat
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Post by Felix the Cat » 04 Sep 2007, 05:26

neddiedrow wrote:However, they are not one and the same - my statement still stands.
But they're both part of that human-geographical entity called China. My statement still stands.
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 04 Sep 2007, 05:29

ok new argument

the US virgin islands = USA?
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Neddie
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Post by Neddie » 04 Sep 2007, 05:30

Never said it didn't.
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Felix the Cat
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Post by Felix the Cat » 04 Sep 2007, 05:39

hunterw wrote:ok new argument

the US virgin islands = USA?
The USVI are part of the United States.

It's a bit different since USVI, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. are essentially colonial holdings of the United States. Taiwan would be an integral part of China if it were not under a different government for purely political reasons.

In a sense we're both right. The argument can be had at several different levels.

On the political level, Taiwan is not China, where Taiwan = ROC and China = PROC, unless you happen to be the government of the Peoples' Republic, in which case Taiwan is part of China.

On the human-geographical level, Taiwan is part of China, despite the fact that they are under two different governments.

Trying to use the wording "Taiwan is China" or "US Virgin Islands is United States" is very misleading, since we're trying to determine is the former could be said to be in the set of the latter. In addition, nobody ever argued that Taiwan is China.
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REVENGE
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Post by REVENGE » 04 Sep 2007, 09:25

Felix the Cat wrote:
neddiedrow wrote:China is not Taiwan. Taiwan is not China.
Seeing as they both consider themselves to be the "real" China, I think you could say that Taiwan is part of China.

(Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China btw.)

The analogue would be if you said "The United States is not Hawaii. Hawaii is not the United States". Hawaii is part of the US but not the entire US. Taiwan is part of China but not all of China.
Well put Felix, +1.
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el_matarife
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Post by el_matarife » 05 Sep 2007, 15:48

Felix the Cat wrote:
hunterw wrote:ok new argument

the US virgin islands = USA?
The USVI are part of the United States.

It's a bit different since USVI, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. are essentially colonial holdings of the United States.
Counter Example: American Samoa. United States "unincorporated territory" that doesn't confer citizenship by birth.
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Felix the Cat
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Post by Felix the Cat » 06 Sep 2007, 01:43

TBH, using the US and its territories as analogies doesn't work anyways - the US has a relatively short history, and socially defines its nationality differently from most other countries.

I can't really figure out a good analogy... but why do we need an analogy? It's not a difficult concept. According to Wikipedia, Taiwan was part of China from 1683 to 1895. 98% of the population of Taiwan is of Han Chinese ethnicity.

Note that I'm not trying to make a case for or against independence for Taiwan or unification of Taiwan and mainland China under any particular government or political scheme. When I say "Taiwan is part of China", it has a much different meaning from when the Peoples' Republic says it.
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jackalope
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Post by jackalope » 06 Sep 2007, 06:36

shut up you stupid nerds.
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Tobi
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Post by Tobi » 06 Sep 2007, 10:34

moved to offtopic
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Caydr
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Post by Caydr » 06 Sep 2007, 23:34

Speaking of china, it sucks that Hong Kong is technically part of it. Hong Kong used to be cool.
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Sleksa
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Post by Sleksa » 06 Sep 2007, 23:36

hong kong still is cool ~~
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