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Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

Moderator: Moderators

Which mod should be default for playing online?

XTA
4
7%
OTA
19
35%
XTA + Evolva models
6
11%
OTA + Evolva models
17
31%
AA
2
4%
Other mod, i posted the name of this mod
6
11%
 
Total votes: 54

User avatar
Storm
Posts: 443
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 22:23

Post by Storm »

Why on earth should it be anything than OTA to be standard? I don't get it.

OTA is the Original game, the most played, the most used, the standard, the mother of all mods, in fact used by most mods. OTA doesn't upgrade once a month. It's static, it's there and it works.

No, it's not well balanced, but putting any self-proclaimed "balance" mod instead would just be ridiculous. Why don't we ship World Domination as a standard game, eh? It's fairly balanced, don't you think?

And hey, why are only a handful of all balancing mods listed? You aren't biased, are you? Where's UberHack, ThunderBall, UTASP? This poll sucks.
mongus
Posts: 1463
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

hm

Post by mongus »

Lets put it this way...
one day u go to a restaurant.
u ask for meat and potatoes. and u like it.

U liked so much that learned to make, meat and potatoes, but, with a bit more onion and garlic and blah blah.

U liked so much that food that, chazam, u put ur own restaurant, and...
let me ask u one thing...

what u serve? old meat and potatoes plain? or ur new (meat potatoes based) invention (mod?).

Thats why i think they have the right to choose wich mod to include as standard.

And if u dont like it, go ahead! there is ota mod and some more working.
Nobody opbligues u, u still have ur freedom.

And i agree with u this poll is biased. and sux.
User avatar
NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
Posts: 3984
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE »

Sorry for the bad poll, i've been out of the TA-scene for quite some time. And therefor hav not knowlage on all the mods, i chose these mods, because they are being played online the most that is XTA OTA and AA.

i do agree OTA isn't balanced and maybe a balanced mod would be better, that's why i added the last option in the poll so u can add better alternitives.

again, sorry for the bad poll, it was not intented to be biased.

regards, NOiZE
User avatar
Storm
Posts: 443
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 22:23

Post by Storm »

Mongus, it's spelled you. YOU. And also the restaurant analogy is critically retarded because it makes no kind of sense.

And then there's the fact that half of the other mods out there use Cavedog original stuff. Setting XTA as standard would be a quite stupid idea, giving mod makers unnecessary hassle. Not to mention that 92% of all custom 3rd party units would have to be rebalanced from scratch to fit in.
mongus
Posts: 1463
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

critically reatarded

Post by mongus »

Storm, it seems u cant understand the analogy, so sad, i tought it was nice and clear.

About the why cant be xta the default mod in ur last post, i didnt understand ur reasons either.

Anyhow, Total Anihilation, is already the starting point for all the mods.
Dont see why would have the other mods need to be modified, because OTA is still the base for them, will ever be.

Mods are not indeed balanced between each other ... i mean... OTA vs AA ??!!

So, no need to modify existing mods balance, they are already balanced within, they wont rate one against each other.

Different story for new Races... :/

edit

Further, i just realized OTA could never be just like the original.
I think xta already went trough the port ( TA > xTA ),
a process OTA hasn't, and should need in order to be the same (?) in Spring.
User avatar
Storm
Posts: 443
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 22:23

Post by Storm »

First of all, it's spelled Y O U, now u. If u wnat me to tlak liek a retrd, contiune plz thx k bye.

Now, your comparison of OTA to mashed potatoes has nothing to do with the facts in hand because it's fatally wrong. It's not me that want to force them to ONLY sell potatoes, it's you that want to ban potatoes. We're talking a completely different hierarchy of things, which you seemingly fail to understand.

Now, back to what I'm saying... Thousands of units use OTA files. If we set XTA as standard, none of these units will be compatible and have to be rebalanced.

God, one thing to argue me, another is completely ignoring what I've said for the last two posts.
Frog
Posts: 44
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 20:09

Post by Frog »

Two or three things:
smoth: Ok, so give me some reasons why newbs should go for OTA.
Also, show me just one person that never played TA, and plays OTA in Spring (and never plays XTA because he thinks its much worse...).

To say the truth, I think the main reason a lot of TA-community people want OTA is because its easier for them.
Quote: "players will probably come expecting the good old style TA play"
" but XTA as it is is too.... different. OTA is something we all got used to"
Both of these arguments are valid, but they obviously only apply to people that have played TA before they played Spring.
The thing is though, that this is not a TA-community project. Most of the work has been done by the SY´s and they´ve made it clear that the project has a larger scope than TA.
Quote: "TA Spring is a project aiming to create a new RTS. Until it gets there we are using content such as units from Total Annihilation to get something to play with. We are better programmers than artists. :)"
TA is just the means for Spring , not the purpose.

Storm: For modability ease, I must agree that having OTA as base would be much better. However, there´s a different way than just having OTA as "standard mod": Instead they could ship Spring with the OTA file as standard, but also have the first mod installed and enabled as standard : XTA ;D . Or do you want to tell me that people that download other mods and units wouldn´t manage to deactivate the standard mod ?
User avatar
Lindir The Green
Posts: 815
Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09

Post by Lindir The Green »

I agree with the above post. I think that it should come with OTA, but with XTA enabled. Or a new mod that tweaks OTA units slightly to make it more balanced, not just the usual mass slashers/sampsons/flashes/MTs. But it should not change the general purpose of units.
User avatar
Storm
Posts: 443
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 22:23

Post by Storm »

Storm: For modability ease, I must agree that having OTA as base would be much better. However, there´s a different way than just having OTA as "standard mod": Instead they could ship Spring with the OTA file as standard, but also have the first mod installed and enabled as standard : XTA ;D . Or do you want to tell me that people that download other mods and units wouldn´t manage to deactivate the standard mod ?
Now that's a closing to a sollution...
User avatar
SinbadEV
Posts: 6475
Joined: 02 May 2005, 03:56

Here's What I think

Post by SinbadEV »

I personally don't mind that XTA is currently the primary source, it's a good one because it's easy (providing unlimmited resources) to test all the units and how they look and stuff. However, when it goes to full realease, or even now, since this is a port of TA it would make sense to make OTA the base OR to make a spring specific mod (making planes and artillery and bashable terrain balenced units).

Just to cover stuff other people have said... The Meat and Potatoes Analogy is absolutely right, makes sense to me... why would you put out crap when we have already improved on it? problem is that it doesn't work that way with video games... I still play super mario bros on my old NES sometimes because it's fun, even though the game has been updated.

Also, to concede a point, mods already self balance themselves, TCs do it too. Unfortunately if you start adding custom units for OTA they ARN'T going to be balenced to XTA, the the logical choice for a core system is then the OTA because it's much easier for people to make minor customizations and adjustments, and pretty much everyone has played OTA, because it's the orriginal.

HOWEVER, I think before this gets to be a full release product an entirely new game (not just new units but new formatting for maps, units, interface, mods etc, plus radically improved gameplay to take advantage of the new 3D interface) should be developed, rather then building on an archaic file structure from a game that was never really designed to be "modded" in the first place.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
Posts: 7029
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Post by zwzsg »

Lindir The Green wrote:I agree with the above post. I think that it should come with OTA, but with XTA enabled.
I posted something like that somewhere else. So I agree.
- OTA as the base file, shipped with Spring.
- XTA has one (or even the only) mod shipped with Spring.
User avatar
Redfish
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 16:12

Post by Redfish »

Well... XTA uses OTA models, animation, textures, sounds etc etc. So if they would ever get into problems with distributing OTA with their Spring then XTA would do the same. Or Cavedog/Atari should have clearly stated somewhere that making a mod with their units doesn't fall under copyrights.
SatiatedGakidou
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 May 2005, 20:51

Post by SatiatedGakidou »

I agree with Zwzsg's idea of having multiple mods come with TASpring. Here is what I would suggest:

-Original TA (For the purists; absolutely nothing changed unless it must be to get it to work in the Spring engine.)
-Switeck's TA Bugfix (Holds very true to the original game, wouldn't even require any different models from those of OTA, but fixes several bugs and makes minor tweaks to balance.)
-XTA (Because it is already there, and it is the product of some of the main developers of Spring, after all.)

Perhaps UH and AA could be bundled in as options as well if the people behind those projects agree. However, before any of this occurs, I think that Spring needs to be allowed to develop a better mod-handling system than the manual folder-shuffling involved currently. I hear it is in the works, though.
mongus
Posts: 1463
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

Spring fast food

Post by mongus »

I think Spring will never be a finished product,it will develops as long as there are people interested in it.
So, there is no such aim as "final product".
If ppl wants, (and have the time) they can push whatever change, mod or version to make a good diferent game bout it (code is out there).

Also, just to have some fun, i would like to see the purists around here to stick with default good old OTA (no CC upgrade here by the way), no aa, no uh no other mod cuz its not OTA!
I can bet there will be no such.

Potatoes withor withoutonions sr?

I like ota, but im tired of it.

Now, back to the original subject.
I dont see a reason (strong enough), to obligue or even ask the developers to set ota as the default installation.
All i can see is some ppl that still not ready to leave Total Annihilation, and want to restrain this great game.
User avatar
VonGratz
Posts: 471
Joined: 03 May 2005, 05:25

Post by VonGratz »

UberHack or OTA + Bugfix that bugfixes :lol: a lot of OTA flaws.
All with non high poly new models, but Evolva style improved ones( with all faces needed) to looking better in SPRING.
Graatz :wink:
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
Posts: 1222
Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15

Post by [K.B.] Napalm Cobra »

Why distribute anything with it? Just put links to mods that work reasonably well on spring next to the main download table.
Doomweaver
Posts: 704
Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14

Post by Doomweaver »

A few basic mods should come with it, like UberHack and AA.
If we are not going to make a new mod altogether, as no one except me seems to want, then UH is far better than XTA - better balance AND less changes,
Frog
Posts: 44
Joined: 12 Sep 2004, 20:09

Post by Frog »

Doomweaver and VonGratz:
Could you try to explain why UH is superior to XTA in your opinion ?
I haven´t played UH for a while, but I remember thinking: "this is really strange" at first. For me it was like a completly new game. New units and changed unit roles did that for me, I think.
In XTA on the other hand I had more of a "this is how it always should have been" feeling (excluding Goliaths maybe :D ) . There are only two new units, and I have the feeling that the units perform as per their description . So please tell me what is off balance in XTA in your opinion, and which changes are larger than those done by UH. Thanks :)

Napalm Cobra: Why not distribute something with it ? Oh, and did you read my above post (I know its long, but its well worth reading ;D)?
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Redfish
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 16:12

Post by Redfish »

If we'd have the OTA patch standard. I'd still like it to use the XTA models. Because they are a bit more realistic. Like the huge bb's and the vulcans. The mini bb in OTA just didn't seem right to me.
Doomweaver
Posts: 704
Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14

Post by Doomweaver »

oh, i'm getting sick of arguing, just make it with OTA, XTA and UH, and when we have a larger community we can have a massive vote on what the default should be.
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