The case of xzalion. - Page 2

The case of xzalion.

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by zwzsg »

oksnoop2 wrote:I more or less agree, it really does suck coming into this community. I felt/feel like i've been/going through some kind of hazing at times. Engine is pretty cool though...
You cannot be compared to xzalion. The main difference is that despite the difficulties, you're trying: The models you posted got negative replies because people here have been spoiled by years of exposure to awesome modelling, but at least you made the effort to build your own models. In your maps topics people ranted about the choice of hosting and image format, but at least you did produce some maps yourself. You're having a hard time with the meteor project, but at least you had the courage to start writing it no matter how mind-boggling Lua was to you. It will be a long and harsh road, but if you don't give up you'll climb it.
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Beherith
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Beherith »

http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads. ... 544&page=1

Look at this thread for comparison. Noone starts harping on him, they dont attack him like a flock of vultures.
They just tell him good luck - and move on.
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zwzsg
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by zwzsg »

I looked at that thread you linked. People asked question such as:
- Any screensshots or concept art yet?
- Do you have completed some other game projects before?
- Why do you put a question mark at the end of every sentence?

Just like us, they questionned his skills and his language. Spring board is not unique! People reacted the same to xzalion on other forums!
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Beherith
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Beherith »

Note the difference in tone and lack of personal jab between:
Have you even made one game in your life?

Or is your skill set limited to playing games and fantasying about making one?
Versus:
For which are you well known? Do you have completed some other game projects before? Why do you put a question mark at the end of every sentence? That confuses me...
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Gota
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Gota »

New guy comes being aggressive,ignore him and let moderators like behe deal with him in private...
There should be absolutely no excuse to start trolling and flaming and discouraging NO MATTER WHAT THE OTHER GUY DID,let mods deal with it.
result will either be his eventual ban or him listening to moderators and than actually doing something positive.
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Pressure Line
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Pressure Line »

I poked around the SA Game Dev Boards, followed some links, did some googling etc

I found his "game dev company" Facebook account, which had a photo gallery, which has a 'Concept Art' album for his South African Wars game. "Excellent" I think "I can take a look at what he's up to. The 'concept art' is a bunch of B&W pictures that look like they were lifted from an old encyclopaedia, with a very nice border around them. Surprised? No. Dissapointed? A little.

A little more Facebook digging brought up some family info, looks like he is in his 20's (based on the age of siblings (and this is a little shaky, but I doubt he is 14))

As far as I can tell the game he already made is something he cooked up with Game Maker 8, but it got fried in a HDD failure or something similar (without him having made a single screenshot).

This whole thing reminds me of the episode of Band of Brothers where they find the concentration camp. One of the replacements is chomping at the bit to 'see some action' the eventual reply is:
...And they're all like you. They're all piss and vinegar. "Where're the Krauts at? Let me at 'em! When do I get to jump into Berlin?" Two days later, there they are with their blood and guts hanging out and they're screaming for a medic, begging for their goddamn mother. You dumb fucks don't even know they're dead yet...
Most of the devs (content or otherwise) are the hardbitten veterans, every month or so, we get some new guy coming in, telling us about his awesome plans and this is so great... But can someone do the modeling, texturing, scripting etc for him? Cos he's more of an ideas guy.

In a way you're right Argh. We (and I freely include myself in this, cos lets be honest, I'm a jerk at the best of times) do present a somewhat unfriendly face to the newbie. But most of the people in a position to help have their own shit to do, and don't particularly appreciate wasting time trying to help someone who just wants to see whatever half-baked idea they thought up while sleeping off a hangover on a park bench, and isn't willing to put in the effort to do it themselves.

/ranting
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by zwzsg »

Beherith wrote:Note the difference in tone and lack of personal jab between
When I feel like someone is trying to trick and deceive me, I can't help but try to debunk him. It would not be healthy to pretend I'm swallowing his lies.
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Jazcash
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Jazcash »

zwzsg wrote:
Beherith wrote:Note the difference in tone and lack of personal jab between
When I feel like someone is trying to trick and deceive me, I can't help but try to debunk him. It would not be healthy to pretend I'm swallowing his lies.
This.
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Beherith
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Beherith »

zwzsg wrote:
Beherith wrote:Note the difference in tone and lack of personal jab between
When I feel like someone is trying to trick and deceive me, I can't help but try to debunk him. It would not be healthy to pretend I'm swallowing his lies.
So you say you tried to debunk him; arent you supposed to use logic and reasoning instead of personal attacks?
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Pressure Line
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Pressure Line »

zwzsg wrote:
Jazcash wrote:Call me harsh, but somebody who isn't willing to even share his ideas or samples of work in fear of whatever he chucks out being copied is obviously asking for it.
No, we cannot ask free sample out of everyone. However, when you demand respect on the ground of being an experienced game developper, it's only fair to name a few googlable games when people get curious.
I dunno, if you come here (or anywhere) saying you have game dev experience, barring catastophic synchronous multiple HDD failure, even if the idea turned out to be a flop you'd have *something* to show for it: scans of something you drew on the back of a bus ticket as a concept, a sketched out tech tree or notes on how you procure new units, screenshots if it got that far, or even some musings on why it didnt work. Something, ANYTHING.
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Gota
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Gota »

Is this now the part 2 of the last thread?
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Peet
Malcontent
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Peet »

I am going to go down the comfortable road of ad hominem and point out the way the OP has responded to moderators enforcing his rule #1 when it involves him. It does not particularly contribute to one's motivation to work to keep the peace when all involved in an incident or incidents are doing their absolute best to convince you that you are abusing your power by attempting to enforce the forum regulations.

Perhaps one should think back to one's own behaviour in the field of authorative interaction before criticizing the enforcers in such a manner.
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Sucky_Lord
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Sucky_Lord »

Its a case of: If you havent got anything good to say, dont say anything at all.

No need to be aggressive to the new player, just because you dont like the way he presents his ideas
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quantum
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by quantum »

I totally agree.

And it's not just about losing one person, other devs will be discouraged from posting because they see that they will be lynched if they take a wrong step. Just ignore threads about unconvincing projects or questions that are too trivial!

I'm in favor of a much more active moderation.
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Jazcash
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Jazcash »

Sucky_Lord wrote: No need to be aggressive to the new player, just because you dont like the way he presents his ideas
He doesn't even play Spring! In fact, he's not put any effort into understanding this community at all. His first post or two were simply copy pastes, they're the same as the posts he made on other forums.
Disagree with me if you wish but I don't have any respect for people who copy paste the same things everywhere they can.
Last edited by Jazcash on 28 May 2010, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by zwzsg »

@Beherith: Look, if he felt personnaly attacked, all he would have to do is to reply: Yes, I made game X and Y. I would then have rushed to check those games, and would he have been credited in them, I would have effectively made a fool of. I gave him a perfect opportunity to silence me while showing the word how awesome he is, and not even looking arrogant while doing so. All that he had to do, was to be himself: A game dev talking about his games.
Kloot wrote:Why is this in Development? Take it to GD where it belongs.
Argh feels it is the Spring dev duty to censure every negative comments, and enforce a positive-only mentality on the boards.

@Pressure Line: Ah, you meant sample as exemple of past works. Sorry. I though you meant sample as small bits of newly produced Spring content.

@Sucky_Lord & Beherith: Indeed, I shall try spending longer consider not responding at all next time.
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Regret
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Regret »

quantum wrote:I'm in favor of a much more active moderation.
So be more active! :regret:
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by AF »

Peet wrote:I am going to go down the comfortable road of ad hominem and point out the way the OP has responded to moderators enforcing his rule #1 when it involves him. It does not particularly contribute to one's motivation to work to keep the peace when all involved in an incident or incidents are doing their absolute best to convince you that you are abusing your power by attempting to enforce the forum regulations.

Perhaps one should think back to one's own behaviour in the field of authorative interaction before criticizing the enforcers in such a manner.

+1

My initial thread posts to xzalion where intending to try and explain how things worked here and why the response he was getting wasnt too friendly, and that his replies where only making it worse.

He took it totally out of context and attacked me for trying to help. I tried to send PMs to clarify I was just trying to help, showed him examples of people coming in and posting results and getting praise, and reccomending he take that kind of approach and that the community can really be very helpful if they know your serious, but instead he did not listen and dismissed them and denounced me.

While I think that the initial replies where bad, and should not have been made, his response was equally unwarranted when replying to the serious posts by developers, leading to more critical, less serious replies afterwards once it was obvious they weren't being taken seriously and their comments fairly.

A lot of us conducted research into this person before attempting to communicate, such as myself, pressureline, or numerous others who found the same threads and articles themselves. I got as far as finding google caches of his old company and his facebook profile too. We didn't blindly dismiss him as a clueless n00b.

I am surprised nobody has gone into the thread on that forum where he complains about us all behind our backs, and state quite concisely and clearly what he did here, behaving immaturely, insulting developers who did nothing but try to help him, ignoring our rules, making threats.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by FLOZi »

zwzsg wrote:
Argh wrote:Every time we lose an xzalion type, we have potentially lost a high-class, motivated individual, who could have contributed great things to Spring.
I disagree with you here. What we lost was a disruptive (he kept spamming inane threads), lying (he kept saying he had been a game designer for 20 years yet the only game he designed was eaten by a trojan before release), threatning (translate his response to FLOZi), condescending (refering to Spring dev as "kids"), low-class (cannot mod, does not even want to learn), delusional (said he would made a great RTS that would stand the test of times), unmotivated (he already left) individual.


Argh wrote:But we will never know, will we?
Actually, we can know. Just search "xzalion" in google. You'll see that he made the same kind of entrance in many modding or open source engine forums. And I have yet to see on of his thread ending in a positive or productive way.
The frenchman nails it on the head.

I'm also in favour of more active moderation - removing disruptive influences like xzalion before people waste time on them.
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Beherith
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Re: The case of xzalion.

Post by Beherith »

FLOZi wrote:I'm also in favour of more active moderation - removing disruptive influences like xzalion before people waste time on them.
Hold your horses there, now I'm supposed to prevent you from responding to these kind of topics? Thats a very steep slope there. You should have the common sense to stay the hell out of threads like that.
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