Default Mod syndrome harming spring - Page 4

Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

Moderator: Moderators

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Gota
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Gota » 01 Sep 2008, 23:28

IMO and irc channel is not the right place for such advertisment.
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Pressure Line
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Pressure Line » 02 Sep 2008, 00:11

Gota wrote:IMO and irc channel is not the right place for such advertisment.
says the man who continuously spams main with SA ads :roll:
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Gota
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Gota » 02 Sep 2008, 00:22

What i meant is that a wall of links will be too intimidating.
It wont have any photoes or proper titles.No clear segragation of the different mods.
If you see a stream of links in main,alot of them one after the other will u start clicking each one or will you just ignnore them?
But when there is a single link with a quicke description it captchures the eye.
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Sertse
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Sertse » 02 Sep 2008, 01:19

Or we just integrate rotating banner advertising inside the lobbies.


Anyways, I think I'm an oddity, mainly here cause I like the "idea" of a free RTS, never really got past KP.., the entire *A concept is overwhelming. I think if I were a more normal player I would of quit long ago. lol

(I really shouldn't troll and go off topic heh.)
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Kaine
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Kaine » 02 Sep 2008, 03:09

Argh wrote:I was thinking it'd be a channel where the links were posted every 30 seconds or so, so it's not too fast, and clicking a link could take players to websites with information, etc., and let people browse around, etc.

So no, I don't see it as a fast-flowing spam channel, but as a slow-moving display that simply shows people what's out there, and allows them to discover the diversity at their leisure.
...So how long will it take to get adblock plus ported to spring? :|
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Lolsquad_Steven
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Lolsquad_Steven » 02 Sep 2008, 06:54

lol
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CarRepairer
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by CarRepairer » 02 Sep 2008, 07:56

Argh wrote:Hey, y'know what?

I just had a brilliant idea. Seriously.

Instead of having this silly argument, over and over again... could we have all of the Lobbies automatically open up a Channel called "Game_Adverts"... and then let anybody who wants to advertise, do so there?

No chatting, just advertisement from an impartial bot. Nobody else even gets to post there... and users can ignore / close it, if they want to.

That'd solve a ton of problems, right there, in terms of making effective outreach possible, without disruptive changes...
#main. It was made for spamming ads.
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tombom
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by tombom » 02 Sep 2008, 10:22

Gota wrote:So,you think there will be players who will not close this chanel when faced with a moving wall of bluish links?
wow, i agree with gota
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by AF » 02 Sep 2008, 12:30

Game advertising is fundamentally flawed and should never have started in the first place. Your game is already shown in the lobby to the end user, why should they need a blueish link on top of that telling them?

Instead I would suggest a more socially oriented methodology where you ahve a limited number of invites you can send out to invite people tot he game (they can still join if they want without one as normal), and youc an send them out to people on your contact list, your clan and people you played recently.

This would prevent advertisement spam from people you dont know, while allowing interested parties to be told of the game who're most likely to join.

Coupled with a filter in the send message box that warns against advertising a game if your currently in a battle waiting
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Argh
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Argh » 02 Sep 2008, 15:20

Game advertising is fundamentally flawed and should never have started in the first place. Your game is already shown in the lobby to the end user, why should they need a blueish link on top of that telling them?
Advertising is about building a playerbase- establishing a product in the market.

Advertising works. Having "my game's name" on some game in the Lobby won't.

Basically, the only thing that's "fundamentally flawed" here is your practical understanding about how marketing works, and why advertising is an essential part of it.
Instead I would suggest a more socially oriented methodology where you ahve a limited number of invites you can send out to invite people tot he game (they can still join if they want without one as normal), and youc an send them out to people on your contact list, your clan and people you played recently.
What an idiotic bunch of crap. Like any indie game project designer has time to put up with all of the nonsense involved with sending out invites and personally hanging around the Lobby all day. Oh, wait, and putting up with the generally-abominable way that people treat people for advertising their games.

That's not a sustainable or even workable way to do things, imo. Word-of-mouth's great... if you already have enough traction that it's fairly easy to get it.

But it's simply impossible to expect people to do this sort of thing, in order to build their initial audience and to build name recognition. Hello, we're people, with lives, and we don't have time for this kind of thing, on top of developing games. It's not realistic.

I guess I'll just resort to using a 'bot in Main, then. I just don't think it's the appropriate way to go about this, frankly, but fight fire with fire, and all that- what's ok for the *As will be fine for me.

That said, I think it's stupid, and completely unnecessary. The Lobby needs an organized and official way to advertise to players. Not ad-hoc spamming in Main, which should be the communal area for players to talk to one another. But, ya gotta do what ya gotta do... and if I don't have a place to advertise otherwise, that's what I'm gonna do.
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AF
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by AF » 02 Sep 2008, 16:29

First you say that I am wrong for saying spamming games in #main is fundamentally flawed Then you contradict yourself! =s

Also such a bot would be breaking sets of rules set down by the bot policy. Bots that talk in #main are not allowed. You would be generating a huge amount of criticism and agro for yourself, and people are unlikely to join P.U.R.E games because of a bot they resent for spamming #main every few minutes. people already ignore #main and its 'my ass chambers bigger than your titties' talk.

Now I suggested a single solution, a mechanism by which players cna do the advertisement. However you attacked it without realising that you are nto a player advertising a server, you are a content dev advertising content. They are not the same, and as such my solution was not intended for your problem and thus was criticized out of context.

Of course a content dev doesn't have time to wait for 5 invites, they want a mass spewage of invites which is an abuse of the system, and there are much better ways to do this as it is. Eitherway advertising games for players to join, is not the same problem as building a player base for new content, and they both need individual tailored solutions.
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Argh
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Argh » 02 Sep 2008, 16:49

Also such a bot would be breaking sets of rules set down by the bot policy. Bots that talk in #main are not allowed. You would be generating a huge amount of criticism and agro for yourself, and people are unlikely to join P.U.R.E games because of a bot they resent for spamming #main every few minutes. people already ignore #main and its 'my ass chambers bigger than your titties' talk.
Yeah, it's great, how the rules got changed after CA made it work, isn't it?

The whole lesson from that episode of Spring's history was that:

A. It worked.
B. It was disruptive to #main, and annoyed people.

So... why not eliminate the negatives? Nobody would get hurt, if there was a channel that replaced, say, #local, which is useless, with #games, which would be useful...
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AF
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by AF » 02 Sep 2008, 17:18

I don't object a channel dedicated to containing the adverts you want, I just don't think players will willingly join it.

As lobby developers we cannot enforce joining this channel at startup however for the following reasons:
  • The new python scripting APIs in the lobbies aegis is writing would allow users to write a script telling the lobby to leave the #games channel as soon as it was joined obsoleting the internal lobby code.
  • Any lobby that refused to implement this would gain an advantage over those that did implement it. It would be seen as a feature by the user base and an incentive to switch lobby clients. All lobby developers would need to agree on the details and implement and enforce together
  • Such a channel if enforced would be unpopular, most users would either ignore it or close it on sight. This would very likely become food for the MTR.
And if CA have a bot advertising in #main then it is in violation of the bot policy and should be removed.

Instead it would be more appropriate to follow the GPGNet example of a banner at the top.
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Argh
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Argh » 02 Sep 2008, 17:39

* The new python scripting APIs in the lobbies aegis is writing would allow users to write a script telling the lobby to leave the #games channel as soon as it was joined obsoleting the internal lobby code.
Most users won't be able to do that, and if they do, who cares?
* Any lobby that refused to implement this would gain an advantage over those that did implement it. It would be seen as a feature by the user base and an incentive to switch lobby clients. All lobby developers would need to agree on the details and implement and enforce together
Not necessarily. I think that people would be very interested in this feature, if done correctly. However, a mere spam-channel with links probably won't cut it.
* Such a channel if enforced would be unpopular, most users would either ignore it or close it on sight. This would very likely become food for the MTR.
Sure, if you force something down people's throats, absolutely. However, if it worked like Steam (minus the startup pop-up windows), where people could browse games, it'd be a useful feature, not an annoying inconvenience.
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AF
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by AF » 02 Sep 2008, 17:44

Most users won't be able to do that, and if they do, who cares?
Users wont have to. I for one want in lobby downloading and listing of these scripts, and implementing such a feature in a script itself to add it to the other lobbies would be trivial. The other lobbies may do it anyway. The end user could do this in a simple point and click procedure.

For example, look at the recent API changes aegis added that allow extra tabs to be created in tasclient and buttons to be added to them.
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Warlord Zsinj » 03 Sep 2008, 00:55

I'm not keen on the whole advertising thing, I stand by the points I made earlier in this thread.

If any sort of advertising was used, I think a subtle rolling ticker would suffice.
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Argh
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Argh » 03 Sep 2008, 00:56

I'm not keen on the whole advertising thing, I stand by the points I made earlier in this thread.
Figures, that a guy running a project that gets lots of free publicity would say that.

I mean, seriously... advertising harms nobody, if it's optional. You guys seem to dislike it without considering the benefits. I'm not talking about turning everything into Times Square, this is about simply putting everybody on a level playing field, in terms of talking to people about what's out there.
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Neddie
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Neddie » 03 Sep 2008, 01:59

Do not turn a discussion into a web-serious conflict, lads.
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Warlord Zsinj » 03 Sep 2008, 02:36

No no, didn't mean to inflame things, if that's the way it goes, I'm not going to be upset by it. I think most users on the internet naturally filter out advertising these days, and it theoretically creates an environment that may work counter-productively to what you are trying to achieve.

As a loose example, on the train networks here in my city, they worked out that the revenue from sticking advertisements on the insides of trains actually worked out to be less then the losses from having to upkeep a railway system that had created a negative environment through plastering ads within the trains. People respect an environment where the environment is respecting them.

I'm not wholly against the idea of advertising in the lobby - but it needs to be subtle. Which is why I thought a CNN style rolling ticker could be nice. Steam also handles this reasonably subtly while still including images. I'm personally really annoyed by all the spamming in #main.
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Argh
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Re: Default Mod syndrome harming spring

Post by Argh » 03 Sep 2008, 03:15

I'm not wholly against the idea of advertising in the lobby - but it needs to be subtle. Which is why I thought a CNN style rolling ticker could be nice. Steam also handles this reasonably subtly while still including images. I'm personally really annoyed by all the spamming in #main.
Meh, I am sorry for being an arse. I did not get enough sleep last night, and I agree with that paragraph 100%.
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