Reclaiming

Reclaiming

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Torrasque
Posts: 1022
Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 23:55

Reclaiming

Post by Torrasque » 16 May 2005, 15:04

I don't like very much the way the reclaiming work.
If you reclaim a krogoth wreck, it just give you 40'000 metal at the end.
I think it should give you x per tick.(in accord with the build time of the unit and the speed of the constructor wich reclaim the wreck)

Secondly, If you reclaim a damaged unit, you will have all his metal back...it's not very good. Make it like wreckage.

I know this idea is not the best, because you can exploit it with the autohealth ... but I think we need an another solution than the current way.

Any idea?
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Delta
Posts: 127
Joined: 09 May 2005, 15:33

Post by Delta » 16 May 2005, 15:20

When reclaiming a wreck, I think that he "x metal/tic" sounds like a great idea, then you also wouldn't loose as much metal if your storage can't handle all the metal at once.

For exploiting reclaiming of damaged units, why not keep it as it is now (not the full metal refund part).

So if you reclaim a wreck, the metal adds per tic and if it's a live unit you get it in one big boost when the reclaiming is done.
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Shanjaq
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Joined: 14 May 2005, 09:40

Post by Shanjaq » 16 May 2005, 15:32

Also, make sure the Commander can't reclaim HIMSELF =P
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Gabba
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Post by Gabba » 16 May 2005, 15:59

Delta wrote:For exploiting reclaiming of damaged units, why not keep it as it is now (not the full metal refund part).
Does repairing cost metal? If it costed as much metal/tick as you can gain through reclaiming, there would be no more exploit.
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Delta
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Post by Delta » 16 May 2005, 16:15

Gabba wrote: Does repairing cost metal? If it costed as much metal/tick as you can gain through reclaiming, there would be no more exploit.
The autorepair doesn't cost anything (I think)
and I assume the manual repair cost about as much as reclaiming would gain (reclaiming 100pt vs reparing 100pt = 1:1) or atleast shuld be...
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Sean Mirrsen
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 17:38

Post by Sean Mirrsen » 16 May 2005, 16:21

Repairing costs nothing now (units repair by themselves). I always disable it in the code.

Even if that feature is off, you could still use some very slow reclaimer and a selfhealing unit like your comander. I think that repairing a unit will cost energy only, like in TA, and reclaiming a unit can gain you its full cost in metal only if it was at 100% health. I mean, make something like a reclaim buffer for constructors, and when they start reclaiming, they fill this buffer (indefinitely), and when they stop, the buffer contents are released. Repairing and self-repairing must not be possible while the unit is being reclaimed.
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Doomweaver
Posts: 704
Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14

Post by Doomweaver » 17 May 2005, 14:50

how about have two parts to the life bar? i.e.
G=green
Y=yellow
R=red

a unit on full health
GGGGGGGG

a unit on half health
GGGGYYYY

a unit on half health due to damage from reclaim
GGGGRRRR

a unit on 1/4 health, 1/4 lost from reclaiming the other 1/2 from damage.
GGYYYYRR

so the idea is, damage from weapons takes off life the can be repaired just by using energy, the idea being that the metal isn't stripped away, rather the joints, computers inside etc. get fried, which is realistic, while healing the red cost metal and energy. The metal gained is in equal proportion to the metal lost, and the energy cost is equal to that of healing a Y. So if you reclaim, then repair, you only end up back where you started, except you have used energy.
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Cheery
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Post by Cheery » 17 May 2005, 15:37

But I thought there aren't a thing which could damage completely in TA. Computer circuits are the same metal as it uses in the another parts of the core. But you are right, there should be 'harder to repair' damage. :)
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Gabba
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Post by Gabba » 17 May 2005, 16:51

Cheery wrote:But I thought there aren't a thing which could damage completely in TA. Computer circuits are the same metal as it uses in the another parts of the core. But you are right, there should be 'harder to repair' damage. :)
What Doomweaver is saying is that if you reclaim, there's some metal missing somewhere, so you have to add some back; However normal damage doesn't remove metal from the unit, it just messes up everything. I think it's a very good concept, except that I would make the units suffer both types of damage: maybe they would only start to suffer "red damage" when they are near-death, they are bound to lose some parts, even if only a cannon. Then self-repairing could only repair the yellow damage, but to get units back to full health you would need to use a repair unit and spend some metal.
Very neat system, I hope it's implemented.
BTW self-repairing for all units is great, it reduces micro-management.
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE » 17 May 2005, 20:00

If metal is only given, when the unit is completely gone, than there is no issue imo
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Luke-o
Posts: 1
Joined: 17 May 2005, 21:24

reclaiming among other things

Post by Luke-o » 17 May 2005, 21:30

Hey people. OK I so know sweet F.A about programming and such and Im sure my comments are too little, too late or massively impractical and naive, but I DON'T CARE 'cos Spring looks like it's gonna ROCK and newby or not I wanna have my say! I LOVE TA!

OK great job so far SY clan, so just some obvious 'ideas'...

Formations?! (How cool would that be! Useful too.)

Experience/veterancy (that is actually useful in practice!)

Please please please get rid of being able to reclaim enemy units, or at least if you reclaim an enemy construction vehicle, don't give it the ability to 'magically' build back an entire enemy army for your disposal - that's just gay. I hated the reclaimers in both OTA and XTA as I thought it defeated the whole point of choosing sides (and having any sort of tactical diversity). I'm sure you already sorted that in Spring though.

Please learn all you can from TA Bugfix, they came so close to making good ol' OTA playable again...!!! I love the fact that you're trying to keep the original TA 'feel' and gameplay. Bravo. Good luck with everything chaps.

Luke (a random newby type)
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Doomweaver
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14

Post by Doomweaver » 18 May 2005, 00:43

Hey, how about powerful enough blow can brake off a cannon, which creates a wreckage and causes red damage, not just yellow. The wreckage, if reclaimed, is enough metal to fully repair the red damage. It's all coming together!
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mongus
Posts: 1463
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

Post by mongus » 18 May 2005, 02:30

When recaliming a kroggoth, build metal storage. (4)
in this mod (xta) storage is worth building.
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Manveru
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Joined: 21 May 2005, 12:01

Post by Manveru » 21 May 2005, 16:04

Hmm, the fact that the metal is given at the end of reclaiming has a strategical purpose:
-> You cannot use your own units as metal resource (reclaim but stop before killing it).
-> You cannot leech from the enemy before he killed your (reclaiming build) unit.
-> You have to build storage to benefit of the entire metal.

Considering these facts I suggest to keep it as in OTA.

[edit]
Just to clarify point 2: You cannot benefit before your unit has fully reclaimed the opponent's unit witch the opponent will probably save by killing your reclaiming unit.
[/edit]
Last edited by Manveru on 22 May 2005, 22:11, edited 2 times in total.
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE » 21 May 2005, 16:37

Manveru wrote:Hmm, the fact that the metal is given at the end of reclaiming has a strategical purpose:
-> You cannot use your own units as metal resource (reclaim but stop before killing it).
-> You cannot leech from the enemy before he killed your (reclaiming build) unit.
-> You have to build storage to benefit of the entire metal.

Considering these facts I suggest to keep it as in OTA.
agree
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Torrasque
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Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 23:55

Post by Torrasque » 21 May 2005, 16:47

After all, I agree for units and buildings.
But I stay on my position for wreck and features.
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE » 21 May 2005, 16:51

Torrasque wrote:After all, I agree for units and buildings.
But I stay on my position for wreck and features.
why should we make it more complex....

also the OTA system is great for this, cuz if your sucking a big wreck u need to defend the area for a time..
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Gnomre
Imperial Winter Developer
Posts: 1754
Joined: 06 Feb 2005, 13:42

Post by Gnomre » 22 May 2005, 09:54

Manveru wrote:Hmm, the fact that the metal is given at the end of reclaiming has a strategical purpose:
-> You cannot use your own units as metal resource (reclaim but stop before killing it).
-> You cannot leech from the enemy before he killed your (reclaiming build) unit.
-> You have to build storage to benefit of the entire metal.

Considering these facts I suggest to keep it as in OTA.
Quoted for truth.
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