Spring RTS Engine

Someone was nice enough to alert me privately. I have banned them from all of the hosts that I run, but this is deserving of a server ban. This is not acceptable, ever.

Rules are meaningless when there is noone to enforce them.

I would also like to plug the fact that there are very few us right now answering newbie questions in #newbies and the only lobby mod somewhat present there is Triton. The time between questions and answers is on average measured in hours and we cannot cover all time zones.

I guess if you knew I was also a moderator in more than half of the BA hosts you'd ask me to do what I can to police them when there's no one else about to do it, right?

Isn't that the point of having mod powers?

Forboding Angel wrote: ↑29 Aug 2018, 06:11 Isn't that the point of having mod powers?

Yes, but. I'm supposed to have quit spring.

Did you send a message to the guys you banned? If not, then you are only doing the easy part of the job, the most satisfaying, and you feel "I punished bad guys", maybe you feel better, but it's not helping.

When I punish players from doing unacceptable things, I talk to them, and they often understand, spec/kick/mute or few games ban are often enough to make these players have better behavior for few hours/days/weeks.

Lucido is someone that needs to be "punished" from time to time, but I wouldn't want to ban him forever. It also makes no sense, since people can rename or change their ip.

I think it's very important to take decisions that cannot be dodged. Maybe a 2 games ban is not much, but when I do it, I force players to respect it.

A small punition that cannot be dodge is better than a big one that will be dodged.

I also think that rulez should be differents according to who is in the room. If we have only old players who likes to trash talk like "gangsta", I wouldnt kick/ban as easily as I do when new players or players who likes polite language are into same room.

p.s : I don't know exact rule for using N word, but I thought black people are allowed to use it. How to you know these guys are not black themselves?

I find it appalling that you are this ignorant of racism and racist slurs. Ofc in the US it is a big deal, but this is kind of a big deal everywhere.

Did you send a message to the guys you banned? If not, then you are only doing the easy part of the job, the most satisfaying, and you feel "I punished bad guys", maybe you feel better, but it's not helping.

If you go around spouting the N word, then you don't need an explanation as to why you have been banned.

Lucido is someone that needs to be "punished" from time to time, but I wouldn't want to ban him forever. It also makes no sense, since people can rename or change their ip.

However, as a lobby mod, it is part of your responsibilities to ban ban-dodgers.

I also think that rulez should be differents according to who is in the room. If we have only old players who likes to trash talk like "gangsta", I wouldnt kick/ban as easily as I do when new players or players who likes polite language are into same room.

p.s : I don't know exact rule for using N word, but I thought black people are allowed to use it. How to you know these guys are not black themselves?

Honestly, this is so ignorant it actually manages to make me angry. These are the 4 most punchable sentences I have read in recent memory. First of all, racism online is prohibited (or should be), period. The word "Nigga" is quite different than "N*****". I understand that you have apparently grown up in an area or culture to where you cannot understand the difference between 2 forms of the same word and how they can have VASTLY different connotations. For non-POC it can be hard to understand, but the point is that are the very fucking least, you can try.

Online, when someone says "Nigga" yes, it is quite impolite. Especially irritating when it is likely that the person behind the keyboard that typed it is probably a fat, pimply, white kid. That said, it is not an outright slur, and while it's usage is distasteful, it isn't directly offensive.

However, I should not have to explain to you how much of a slur that the word "n*****" is. I mean, holy fuck, have you lived your entire life under a rock?

To save myself from going on a long rant that you'll likely not understand, I present you with two articles:

https://www.theroot.com/why-its-ok-for- ... 1826255011
https://www.upworthy.com/a-refresher-co ... ite-people

Read them. Don't fucking skim them, READ them. Educate yourself. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. It isn't a crime to be ignorant, but it is a fucking disgrace to remain ignorant.

Forboding Angel wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 01:44 If you go around spouting the N word, then you don't need an explanation as to why you have been banned.

Uh. But it's Respectful and Professional. And encourages them to change for next time. And gives them one less fault to find with your actions.

Forboding Angel wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 01:44 However, as a lobby mod, it is part of your responsibilities to ban ban-dodgers.

Yes. But it's also their responsibility to not create ban-dodgers. Ideally we want people to stay and be good! Right?

Forboding Angel wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 01:44 …

I like to remain ignorant, personally, and just say what I mean, but when it comes to applying rules to others, I think that if any people use it, it shouldn't be expected for some people to not, however that's based on idealistic reasoning…

To be honest, we don't have clear guidelines on this at all. I would tend to agree but there are a vast number of other terms that are… in BA, call it horrible, call it whatever, it's how things are, a lot of the community uses very crude language. (I think that's the right word? Crude? hehe…) and in order to change that… there would have to be a *lot* of consequences. If we ban one word, what makes the others okay? Maybe they don't carry *quite* as much baggage but where do we draw the line?

Don't let me set the rules though. Everyone will be wondering why everyone left.

Yes. But it's also their responsibility to not create ban-dodgers. Ideally we want people to stay and be good! Right?

And by that logic we shouldn't put anyone in prison because they might escape.

... the rest of this mindless drivel ...

... Seriously? You must be a young kid, there is no way this came out of the mouth of a grown adult. Masterbel2, feel free to acquaint yourself with the AutoHost rules.



Also, Triton, you need to familiarize yourself with the AutoHost rules.

In particular the parts about "immediate" "permanent" and "ban".

I am familiar with the auto-host rules. They're just for the most part ignored and I don't have the power to change that. I would certainly love for that to change, though? I'm kind of waiting for Floris or someone to say, yes they're the rules, abide by them.

And by that logic we shouldn't put anyone in prison because they might escape.

I would rather suggest that death sentences and life sentences with no allowance whatsoever for release on reform are what I'm arguing against. But I guess that's growing offtopic? .-.

I also think that rulez should be differents according to who is in the room.

I'm not in favour of this (and afaik no autohosts have them, either). I do think context is important, but I think rules that depend explicitly on which users are present are just not practical.

@Forboding Angel:

https://springrts.com/wiki/Botflags wrote:All issues concerning users behaviour inside battle hosts should be reported to the hosts owners and admins. Springs moderators will not normally become involved in such cases. Issues of serious and prolonged disruption that extend beyond an individual battle host, or concern the conduct of host owners/admins, should be reported to Springs moderators via private message.

(1) " ... reported to Springs moderators via private message". For reports, this is not optional.

For general discussion (e.g. of bad language in autohosts) that is not focused on asking for a reaction against particular users, then I encourage you to use the forums.

(2) Without reliable account validation/control, enforcing a server ban requires human babysitting against any ban dodging on new IPs. For such cases, lobbyserver bans are not much more than a social signal or a "we'll remove you if we see you" notification. Consequently, they have the potential to be counterproductive, and the bar at which we choose to enforce one server-wide is high. Contributions towards account validation are welcome, in fact a small step in that direction is wip: https://github.com/spring/uberserver/pull/266.

(3) We will generally not use the simple presence/absence of some particular word as a reliable indicator of the presence/absence of racism (or, indeed, of anything else). What matters to us are intentions and motives, and whether or not any serious harm resulted.

Triton has offered some sensible suggestions for how you (as host owner and creator/enforcer of your hosts rules on language) should respond and I suggest you take them seriously. In particular:

Triton wrote:Did you send a message to the guys you banned? If not, then you are only doing the easy part of the job, the most satisfaying, and you feel "I punished bad guys", maybe you feel better, but it's not helping.

When I punish players from doing unacceptable things, I talk to them, and they often understand, spec/kick/mute or few games ban are often enough to make these players have better behavior for few hours/days/weeks.

For the future, including of this report, see (1) and send a private message to the "staff" or "moderators" group.

Locked.