Spring RTS Engine

Some moderator went into my private messages inbox and read/removed parts of a conversation and an entire message. I did not receive an explanation. This is not the first time moderators make changes without leaving a notification of them editing something. This is also not the first time I complained about this. Since apparently this behaviour is not adjusted we can't expect this not to happen in the future either. So here it goes:

You, the person who edited and removed private messages without leaving a message saying that you did, are a bad moderator.

Some moderator went into my private messages inbox and read/removed parts of a conversation and an entire message.

When?
All ban/edit/move/delete posts etc actions are logged in "moderation log" thing but not such entry.
As far I know moderators can no read private messages, at least did not find such function.

The message that was edited I received at Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:00 am. The message that was deleted I received at Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:40 pm.

I don't know at which exact time the editing and deleting was done but it probably was after the second message. I did read the original contents of the first message before it was edited.

I was not the only one who received the first message, albator and varikonniemi also did. The second message I can't tell because it was deleted before i could open it. The user (dronex2) sending the message has been deleted (The requested user does not exist.).

It would surprise me if mods could read pm's. As far as I know we have no such tools.

Also, as far as I know, once a PM has been read, it cannot be edited.

I had the same message and mine was edited too. This is very sad. Not sure if this is even legal.

dronex2 was deleted including their outbox


One would hope this is all a misunderstanding due to the deletion of dronex2's account and outbox, I am not sure exactly what effect that would have on others who were communicating with him.

There were several word-censors implemented at the same time relating to zervers fork - it is possible that these censors are retro-actively 'editing' the text as you see it.

FLOZi wrote:AFAIK it would require database access to read the PMs.

dronex2 was deleted including their outbox

Not sure how editing would occur without database manipulation.


Legality? When you sign up you basically agree to allow access to everything you post by whoever holds the database keys.

Morality? Another question entirely.

One would hope this is all a misunderstanding due to the deletion of dronex2's account and outbox, I am not sure exactly what effect that would have on others who were communicating with him.

Deleting an account CAN NOT LEAD to editing of 2 specific words in a PM.

ah, word censors.. why would they work half a day later?

Word censors work retroactively on all instances it seems, because they don't edit the actual words in the database but parse the strings before displaying them.

Looks like there was no nefarious business but an unfortunate sequence of events;

1. dronex2 was banned for being an obvious smurf / discussion & links to GPL violating software

2. His outbox was deleted due to the above

3. Word censors imposed relating to the GPL violation for which the outbox / account were deleted, retroactively editing anyone's PM's with that account.

The way it has been handled is poor, certainly.

FLOZi wrote:Word censors work retroactively on all instances it seems, because they don't edit the actual words in the database but parse the strings before displaying them.

Looks like there was no nefarious business but an unfortunate sequence of events;

1. dronex2 was banned for being an obvious smurf / discussion & links to GPL violating software

2. His outbox was deleted due to the above

3. Word censors imposed relating to the GPL violation for which the outbox / account were deleted, retroactively editing anyone's PM's with that account.

The way it has been handled is poor, certainly.

Hm, sad indeed. I guess no single mod bears responsibility then. Thanks for the quick replies.

By now you might know that I dislike censorship. Can't even type r t s m p and . + c o m in the lobby. Why are we making a secret out of this? Because of GPL violations? BS. No one cared about all sorts of violations for the past 10 years(any *A project?). This is nothing but a personal feud between two parties that should get over their differences already.

We do care about GPL violations of the Spring engine and related projects created by the community. It shouldn't be hard to understand that any promotion of illegal use of this engine would be banned here.

PS: You can type that in the lobby, I just tried it and it worked.

Also I agree with this:

The way it has been handled is poor, certainly.

I don't care what people write in private messages here, as long as it's not spam/harassment.

This is notAjoke!

gajop wrote:We do care about GPL violations of the Spring engine and related projects created by the community. It shouldn't be hard to understand that any promotion of illegal use of this engine would be banned here.

PS: You can type that in the lobby, I just tried it and it worked.

Also I agree with this:

The way it has been handled is poor, certainly.

I don't care what people write in private messages here, as long as it's not spam/harassment.

Illegal is not allowed? So what has AA/BA been doing all this time? Or is that not GPL? Not illegal enough then?

and the PS. Can't type that phrase in PM's in lobby but can in battles and channels. Censorship is failing?

OMG, i feel something... truth is around. I expect thi forum thread will be deleted or better cleaned in a while

klapmongool wrote:...

This is not about truth - spring project is not democracy. I accept it, its one effective way how it can work, but sometimes i think spring leaders should not hide this fact.

Censoring PMs is stupid and just spread bad PR, i dont think theres any discussion about it.

klapmongool wrote: Not illegal enough then?

Yep. It's a whole different thing to use 3rd party proprietary (legacy) art (which is being phased out) than it is to illegally use and distribute the main project of this community.

klapmongool wrote: and the PS. Can't type that phrase in PM's in lobby but can in battles and channels.

I'd honestly rather have it inverse (only be censored in public channels) if at all.

klapmongool wrote:Illegal is not allowed? So what has AA/BA been doing all this time? Or is that not GPL? Not illegal enough then?

I was afraid of this, that the very long history of looking the other way from OTA stuffs was giving people the idea that licenses have no value.

(which is being phased out)

Yes, with the release of BAR the vast majority of player game time will be on non-infringing projects.

gajop wrote:

klapmongool wrote: Not illegal enough then?

Yep. It's a whole different thing to use 3rd party proprietary (legacy) art (which is being phased out) than it is to illegally use and distribute the main project of this community.

I don't see how that justifies the illegal use of someone elses property for a decade. The Spring engine and community propagated that illegal use. The fact that BAR has been in the making for the past 3/4 years doesn't make up for that. Therefore, if this community is really that much against illegal stuff, it should have been acted up by banning BA and those who use the Spring engine for their evil doings.

That did not happen.

Why is the whole zerver business dealt with so harshly? Because shit got out of hand. Ego´s were bruised. It is time to cool down and start talking again.

gajop wrote:

klapmongool wrote: and the PS. Can't type that phrase in PM's in lobby but can in battles and channels.

I'd honestly rather have it inverse (only be censored in public channels) if at all.

Yea, same here. But rather none at all.

klapmongool wrote:I don't see how that justifies the illegal use of someone elses property for a decade. The Spring engine and community propagated that illegal use. The fact that BAR has been in the making for the past 3/4 years doesn't make up for that. Therefore, if this community is really that much against illegal stuff, it should have been acted up by banning BA and those who use the Spring engine for their evil doings.

To put it simply, the difference is that the TA owners never said anything about it.

klapmongool wrote:Why is the whole zerver business dealt with so harshly? Because shit got out of hand. Ego´s were bruised. It is time to cool down and start talking again.

You are inventing drama and there isn't really anything to talk about.

luckywaldo7 wrote:

klapmongool wrote:Why is the whole zerver business dealt with so harshly? Because shit got out of hand. Ego´s were bruised. It is time to cool down and start talking again.

You are inventing drama and there isn't really anything to talk about.

Right, that must be it.

Editing private message... wow unheard of, can we start a petition right now to end this at all cost ffs?