Spring RTS Engine

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:AAI beats you?
you wanna try KAI, theres a working version again, except atm it lieks jellyfish instead of llt.
or RAI, which is also pretty good.
AAI is better for learning to play.

There's no need for the incredulity; pretty much a dead hamster could beat me at any sort of RTS.

This is why I usually make teams of bots to take the flak for me. ¬_¬

This has happened twice.

Pictures are worth a thousand words...




you'll see that my mouse cursor is hovering over the shark's tooth, as its information is shown in the bottom left hand corner. you should also see that my construction ship is the only unit selected, and that the cursor is not the reclaim cursor.

not sure if this is mod-related or spring related, so i just post it here in hopes of it getting fixed

Did you try area reclaim?

If I remember correctly, con units will only automatically reclaim enemy dragon's teeth, and that you have to specifically order reclaim to reclaim your own or an allies. Or are those enemy teeth?

jellyman wrote:If I remember correctly, con units will only automatically reclaim enemy dragon's teeth, and that you have to specifically order reclaim to reclaim your own or an allies. Or are those enemy teeth?

True.

Yup, thats how it works.

Only enemy Teeth/walls can be area or quick reclaimed by making the cursor command reclaim over those features.

Your own, or teamate owned DragonsTeeth/Walls must be force reclaimed by either Hotkey, or going into the Construction menu
to select "reclaim", then you have to que each DT individually to reclaim a wall.

OK, I've tested out a few things, and here's what I've found.

Shark's teeth are currently 100% unreclaimable in both BA and AA. E does not work. E and dragging a circle also does not work.

Don't believe me? Host a game on BA or AA (AA version 2.23 or higher) with water, start your comm in it, and build a shark's tooth. If you can reclaim it, I am very confused.

From what I've seen this isn't a very obscure bug. It happens every game I've hosted on BA and AA. For some reason, XTA worked, so it is somehow mod-related, but at the same time, the bug occurs for old versions of AA for which it previously did not, therefore the bug is linked both to a new version of spring as well as the BA/AA mod.

jellyman wrote:If I remember correctly, con units will only automatically reclaim enemy dragon's teeth, and that you have to specifically order reclaim to reclaim your own or an allies. Or are those enemy teeth?

manored wrote:

jellyman wrote:If I remember correctly, con units will only automatically reclaim enemy dragon's teeth, and that you have to specifically order reclaim to reclaim your own or an allies. Or are those enemy teeth?

True.

MR.D wrote:Yup, thats how it works.

Only enemy Teeth/walls can be area or quick reclaimed by making the cursor command reclaim over those features.

Your own, or teamate owned DragonsTeeth/Walls must be force reclaimed by either Hotkey, or going into the Construction menu
to select "reclaim", then you have to que each DT individually to reclaim a wall.

NOT TRUE. Why don't people TEST these things before they post things like this. Dragon's Teeth are not owned by ANY team; I tested your "theory" with BA & XTA and it's just not true. On the other hand hunterw's problem is valid, and its a mod (BA) specific problem, as i tested it with XTA 8.1 and it seems to work fine.

Lippy: it IS mod specific, but at the same time, the bug has appeared as far back as AA 2.23, therefore it has been caused by the latest version of Spring.




Addendum: Shark's teeth reclaiming works in AA version 1.46

Therefore, there is a change in shark's teeth that occured between AA 1.46 and AA 2.23, and this change has, since the last version of spring, prevented them from being reclaimed.

It follows that this bug can be fixed by either the modders or the Spring devs. The Spring devs have caused it, as it suddenly appeared for any AA/BA derivant after AA 1.46, but modders can fix it by reverting back to the style of shark's teeth in either AA 1.46 or XTA.

Its a simple reclaimable=0; on the corpse. Dont know why that was put on there, or why it didnt do anything earlier. Probably some minor change in spring that activated this tag?

The corpses that have this (In Features/Corpses/type2.tdf) are FloatingTeeth, FloatingTeeth_Core, Fortification and Fortification_Core.

So sharks teeth and fortification walls cant be reclaimed. I can see the motivation behind the fort walls (i mean there has to be some reason to build them right?) but sharks teeth?

So the tag previously did nothing, but the latest version of Spring has finally made "reclaimable=0" work?

Odd...not much of a bug then, just an oversight on AA/BA that never came up because the line never did anything.

Either way, lets definitely get this on the slate for the next BA!

Question is: Do we leave fort walls unreclaimable? Probably not, since they take 2 nukes to kill. Might want to consider adding their energy cost to their corpse though, if we want to slow down their reclaim times (Consider how long they take to build i think thats reasonable).

NOT TRUE. Why don't people TEST these things before they post things like this. Dragon's Teeth are not owned by ANY team; I tested your "theory" with BA & XTA and it's just not true. On the other hand hunterw's problem is valid, and its a mod (BA) specific problem, as i tested it with XTA 8.1 and it seems to work fine.

Uh. Lippy. Maybe you should test this yourself before you post things like that?

A com reclaiming an enemy coms DT's, and totally ignoring his own:

DT's are team owned. Dont ask me how that works but there it is...

no walls should be unreclaimable, that's ridiculous

i'd say that fort walls should probably take a bit longer to reclaim than DTs, maybe give them some amount of energy to make them slower to reclaim.

edit: lol that's exactly what you just said

i personally think we should just get rid of dragon teeth. all they really do is encourage people to porc. instead of building acctual defences all you have to do is build a wall. what else is this unit for besides porcing?

the only problem with getting rid of dragon teeth that i see is that
A. Porcers will whine about no dragon teeth.
B. sometimes dt are used to block the attacks of rockos, so rockos may have to be weakened.

benefits:

A. causes the strategy of porcing to be less effective
B. makes it so that players have to build better defences to replace the dt
C. makes it so that a wall that costs 100 metal doesnt stop an army that costs 2000 metal


also, it doesnt make sense that a unit the size of a peewee could block any unit besides the krog.

I dunno about BA, but in the other mod, if you can't overcome a few DTs it's because of your own tactical lacking

P3374H wrote:I dunno about BA, but in the other mod, if you can't overcome a few DTs it's because of your own tactical lacking

It is the same in BA.

yeah take out a unit that's been in every version of TA since 10 years ago, good idea

There is no reason to take out DTs. Porcing is a failing strategy even with DTs.

Obviously DT's should be removed, but perhaps there should be an easier way to crush and/or destroy them.

yes, remove the only good thing taht keeps people from mindlessly spamming single units to win.

Good Idea, more balanced every day.

Once Crushing comes back in the new patch with LVL-2 and heavy units, you ppl will surely find something else to whine about.

DT are reclaimable, it just takes a bit of micro to Reclaim your own DT.
Enemy DT can be reclaimed quickly and easily.

Havn't tested the FLoating Dragon's teeth though, so I wouldn't know about those. But ground placed DT aren't a problem at all.