Spring RTS Engine

Muzic wrote:

Dragon45 wrote:isnt frozentaco just an annoying troll
why is anyone listening to this guy
fuck trolls

lol

Where's the obligatory lolcat?

Gota wrote:Forb,relax with your game already.
Go work on it.
You wanna make a great game awsome,im happy about all the progress you made.

It's not about me damnit, NOR is it about Evo! I could give a shit about that because these are not the people that I am catering to! I refer to it because it's what I know the MOST about. It's not like I know every in and out of PURE or Gundam (tho arguably EE but since I started working on Evo I've pretty much fallen behind with it).

It's about the fact that you go and show off 10 year old crap ass content with shitty models, worse effects and say "Hur hur this is Spring! It's OMGFUKWIN better than Supcom Hur hur!!".

And then you get defensive when people laugh at you and tear you down for it, which just exacerbates everything into a laughable springbash session.

Face it people. BA/CA/*A FAILS because of shit ass models. If all the models in CA were done then you could take it out of that equation, but until all of them are replaced, it is still just another alphabet soup mod. There is 0 point in showing off really cool features and kick ass explosions when the models look like shit. It only makes you look like a freaking idiot!

Not to mention that we have 1 alternate GUI which is pretty much impossible to mod for our own uses, and that would be ICEUI. Nevermind the fact that it TANKS PERFORMANCE.

We have a content system that BARELY works (compared to commercial games), and is damn near freaking impossible for noobs to figure out!

/fucking pissed off mode.

Case in point. One of my good friends I have played guild wars with for many many years wanted to see my game. So I walked her through installing spring and getting the game. Walked her through getting my game and installing it (which is easy as pie), and then had to try to walk her through tasclient. Springlobby won't include installers and you have to get to separate zips to get it to work in the first place, so that option was pretty much out.

SO now I have to walk her through using tasclient and setting up an account. AN HOUR LATER (downloading time for both spring installer + installing it AND Evo was roughly 8 or 9 minutes) we are ready to start the game, and which point she has to figure out spring's badly documented interface because I don't have my own gui yet (and won't until after .77 is released) so I can make things easy to understand.

Needless to say, after the exhausting process of just getting the thing running, there wasn't much enthusiasm left.


TL;DR, Spring has a LOT of flaws. Bad ones. That doesn't mean that Spring is a bad project, quite the contrary in fact, but there is little that people like myself can do about it. Koshi has graciously filled some of my requests for springlobby and even given me instructions on how to customize it to some extent (waiting on .77 to go ahead with it). Now thanks to Hoi helping out with the installer, we will finally be able to package only our own games and maps with the spring installer (as well as separately of course in the event that the player already has spring), but we have a LONG way to go before Spring is properly marketable to commercial RTS players, and this isn't even touching on the lack of proper single player.

Obviously, if I thought that this wasn't being corrected then I wouldn't be here. Our devs are doing a tremendous job considering the mountains of shit to do. For some reason people here seem to have a lot of trouble understanding the concept of "We and "Us" and only refer to "I" and "Me", and that, is what pisses me off the most.

Now thanks to Hoi helping out with the installer, we will finally be able to package only our own games and maps with the spring installer (as well as separately of course in the event that the player already has spring), but we have a LONG way to go before Spring is properly marketable to commercial RTS players, and this isn't even touching on the lack of proper single player.

Don't expect that soon, that doesn't mean it wont be there soon, but just don't expect it:) IRL started again so I will have a bit less time, but I have already learned to make an installer, I'm currently busy with modifying the spring installer. I'm also learning c++ and texturing, also making a mod, but when I have the model I'm busy with done, I'll give the installer more attention.

Forboding Angel wrote:

Gota wrote:Forb,relax with your game already.
Go work on it.
You wanna make a great game awsome,im happy about all the progress you made.

It's not about me damnit, NOR is it about Evo! I could give a shit about that because these are not the people that I am catering to! I refer to it because it's what I know the MOST about. It's not like I know every in and out of PURE or Gundam (tho arguably EE but since I started working on Evo I've pretty much fallen behind with it).

It's about the fact that you go and show off 10 year old crap ass content with shitty models, worse effects and say "Hur hur this is Spring! It's OMGFUKWIN better than Supcom Hur hur!!".

And then you get defensive when people laugh at you and tear you down for it, which just exacerbates everything into a laughable springbash session.

Face it people. BA/CA/*A FAILS because of shit ass models. If all the models in CA were done then you could take it out of that equation, but until all of them are replaced, it is still just another alphabet soup mod. There is 0 point in showing off really cool features and kick ass explosions when the models look like shit. It only makes you look like a freaking idiot!

Not to mention that we have 1 alternate GUI which is pretty much impossible to mod for our own uses, and that would be ICEUI. Nevermind the fact that it TANKS PERFORMANCE.

We have a content system that BARELY works (compared to commercial games), and is damn near freaking impossible for noobs to figure out!

/fucking pissed off mode.

Case in point. One of my good friends I have played guild wars with for many many years wanted to see my game. So I walked her through installing spring and getting the game. Walked her through getting my game and installing it (which is easy as pie), and then had to try to walk her through tasclient. Springlobby won't include installers and you have to get to separate zips to get it to work in the first place, so that option was pretty much out.

SO now I have to walk her through using tasclient and setting up an account. AN HOUR LATER (downloading time for both spring installer + installing it AND Evo was roughly 8 or 9 minutes) we are ready to start the game, and which point she has to figure out spring's badly documented interface because I don't have my own gui yet (and won't until after .77 is released) so I can make things easy to understand.

Needless to say, after the exhausting process of just getting the thing running, there wasn't much enthusiasm left.


TL;DR, Spring has a LOT of flaws. Bad ones. That doesn't mean that Spring is a bad project, quite the contrary in fact, but there is little that people like myself can do about it. Koshi has graciously filled some of my requests for springlobby and even given me instructions on how to customize it to some extent (waiting on .77 to go ahead with it). Now thanks to Hoi helping out with the installer, we will finally be able to package only our own games and maps with the spring installer (as well as separately of course in the event that the player already has spring), but we have a LONG way to go before Spring is properly marketable to commercial RTS players, and this isn't even touching on the lack of proper single player.

Obviously, if I thought that this wasn't being corrected then I wouldn't be here. Our devs are doing a tremendous job considering the mountains of shit to do. For some reason people here seem to have a lot of trouble understanding the concept of "We and "Us" and only refer to "I" and "Me", and that, is what pisses me off the most.

That vid is the most seen vid of spring by far.People there thought it was cool.So your wrong.
And you keep blatantly misguiding readers since i did not introduce spring as ta only.
Ta is a lot more finished then most projects atm.

Gota wrote:That vid is the most seen vid of spring by far.People there thought it was cool.So your wrong.
And you keep blatantly misguiding readers since i did not introduce spring as ta only.
Ta is a lot more finished then most projects atm.

Any of you guys play on the Spring engine?
For those of you that are not familiar with it,spring is an open source rts engine.
It was formaly knows as TA spring because it was mostly used to play mods of total annihilation.
Its all free and downlaodable from the internet.
It has many other games running on it and there are about 900 maps for it as well.
The comunity is lively and has many active developers(the springengine uses lua like Supcom).
I have supcom but i still play spring for a few reasons;
Spring has in many ways much better controls than Supcom,for example
Instead of sending cons to patrol you can give them a reclaim order by making a circle and it will reclaim everything in it.
Its hard to explain but its much better than the ta style,"sending your cons to patrol"...
Also unit control is much better,there is actual micro and there are many very comfterble ways to move and place your units.
Anyway here isa trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpKqQxTU ... re=related
come and check it out,its free and might giv eyou a new perspective on supcom.
Here is the projects website.Its about to be replaced by a new one but for now this link is ok.
http://spring.clan-sy.com/

Here is a screenshot from above the battlefield.(camera is entirly free there,you can turn it as you wish and you zoom out just like in supcom).
http://spring.clan-sy.com/screenshots/screen96.jpg

Bolded the TA references, and a vid and screencap. All TA. TA was finished 10 years ago, not sure how you didn't get that memo.

Here's a thought for you. Almost every non-TA game has 100% moar features than *A O_O *Gasped!!*


Lets continue shall we?

True i am a noob at forged alliances.
But i can say straight away that spring has better unit control and i can give at least 1 good reason.
most spring mods use have a formation tool that allows you to immedietly draw formations without any delays.
The formation can be whatever you want,a line a circle,whatever shape you choose to draw the units will go and spread across it.
I have not seen anything similair in FA,the only thing there is is the formations created when u hold the right button.
That systme is far inferior unfortunatly.
About duel core,spring does not support duel core but a new version is about to be released that will changes all that.
Spring is not as epic as supcom,but not cause it cant be, but cause it chooses to not be.
All it takes for spring mods to be like supcom are a few minor changes of unit shooting ranges their size and speed.
In fact there are mods that are "epic" just like supcom and use sets of icons just like supcom
All the ota based mods devs think that the current scale is a good balance between epicness and ease and fun of play.
It is not fun to play with icons,sure thats what it takes to make the game more epic but isnt that just a gimick anyway.
Im not here to bash Supcom FA,its a great game.
Even though FA in my opinion sufffers from small incrorrect gameplay design choices im sure those will smoothen out but Supcom is not open sourced and thus will stay as it is forever.
Spring on the other side is totaly open sourced and is being improved constantly.
Just in the past half a year so much has been added...I play Spring i played The vanilla Supcom which was an awful porc spam and im hoping to play FA online as well but i reccomand spring as jsut a player and i have no gain from it except welcoming some of you into the community and playing with you.
I must add that I like FA unit,I like experimentals I like the Visuals in general very much.
I also do like the macro and the more strategic approach and i like the different sides even though they are pretty similair if you compare it to games liek starcraft(but i dont see it as a disadvantage nesseserily).
I cant get online ATM but what i do remember from the supcom vanilla is that there wer tons of rage quitters i hope the community is a bit better now.

In the first couple lines you state that spring has better unit control (In the context of pathfinding). This is every bit a blatant pile of crap. Spring has terrible unit control. It works. But it's pretty bad (yes the custom formation widget is win, but the problem is the means of the units getting there, not the end result). Sideways code anyone?

Then you tell supcom players that their game is inferior. Nice one. Then you go and say "oh well uhhh uhhh no dual core just yet". Open mouth, insert foot.

There are not mods that are "Epic like supcom". EE is the ONLY on and it doesn't even come close to being handled as well as supcom in terms of Epicness.

Another TA reference?

Once again you hint that supcom is crap... TO a bunch of supcom fanboi's. Niiiice.

"your game is crap, but I'm not here to bash it... Honest!". Heh, yeah.

Supcom players think that FA is the third coming of ChrisT, and you go and say "in my opinion sufffers from small incrorrect gameplay design choices im sure those will smoothen out". Heh, I'm sure they loved that one.

Your next point was good, but too bad you already screwed the pooch royally with the rest of your post.

Just in the past half a year so much has been added...I play Spring i played The vanilla Supcom which was an awful porc spam and im hoping to play FA online as well but i reccomand spring as jsut a player and i have no gain from it except welcoming some of you into the community and playing with you.

You just said it sucked. Now you are dying to play it? How stupid do you think people are?

Sigh. At this point that entire thread reeks of utter fail. Destroyed by fanboi'ism. You blew whatever chance you had with the second sentence in your second post. Do you actually read before hitting submit. And for the LOVE OF GOD. PRESS THE DAMN ENTER KEY TWICE!!!

ca has more features than Evo and gundam put together.

Hmm, that is true. However CA aspires to be non alphabet soup does it not (not that that makes a difference here tho)?

Evo and Gundam inversely have features that CA does not (not really trying to make a point with that, just stating it).

Was I too hard on him? Seems like sometimes you have to hit people with a bag of bricks before they understand what you are saying.

In my defense, he did say "TA".

My brain powerz are weak and mana low.
i cant proccess any more walls of text about this subject.

Gota wrote:My brain powerz are weak and mana low.
i cant proccess any more walls of text about this subject.

Oh i'll sum it up for you.

The d00d who posted on supcom to 'defend' spring is a fucking retard.

Forboding Angel wrote:Hmm, that is true. However CA aspires to be non alphabet soup does it not (not that that makes a difference here tho)?

Evo and Gundam inversely have features that CA does not (not really trying to make a point with that, just stating it).

Was I too hard on him? Seems like sometimes you have to hit people with a bag of bricks before they understand what you are saying.

In my defense, he did say "TA".

Funny how people make derogatory names for ta based mods eventhoughwithout them they wouldnt have any people to play their new projects.

Funny how people make derogatory names for ta based mods eventhoughwithout them they wouldnt have any people to play their new projects.[/quote]

This is unproven and unfounded. It may be that the reason spring is not insanely popular is precisely because most people think TA is old and decrepit, theres no proof.

has anyone noticed frozentaco hasnt been around?
hurray the buggers gone!

AF wrote:Funny how people make derogatory names for ta based mods eventhoughwithout them they wouldnt have any people to play their new projects.

This is unproven and unfounded. It may be that the reason spring is not insanely popular is precisely because most people think TA is old and decrepit, theres no proof.[/quote]

But the initial player base..it came from ta.

In case you haven't noticed the size of the initial player base is small and still is small, and started at a time of declining OTA community numbers.

Gota, most of us could give a flying crap about the current spring playerbase.

Let me post this is omgwtfhuegliekxbox text so that you can understand the concept:


We don't market to the current spring playerbase because there is nothing to be gained there!

Do you understand now?

Now,read my and AF's posts again carefully and tell me how is your post connected to them?

Where did i say u need to market to the current spring player base?
Without ta mods there wouldnt be any community and no spring.
And you would have nobody to test your mods.
So give the TA legacy a bit of respect since your enjoying its fruits, more or less.

Can´t we copy the uninterested Devs SupCom has? Seems a pretty suxessfull Concept to me!

Just for a show-off, they could say it out loud, that they don´t expect to earn anyhting with Spring and therefore gaspower it no further!

I mean look on Spring from a Economical Perspective, workhour after workhour - and all that fun for free, the horrorz if that would beat SupCom.. a Game Industry whatfor ?

Getting a *A player to play an original content mod is about as likely as one who is totally new to spring. All the legacy he's enjoying is the engine, which doesn't have much to do with TA anymore. I'd say the current playerbase is more of a hinder than an asset to OC mods.

I disagree.
If the current users bother them they can always seperate from spring's player base.
All none ta mods can seperate.
I bet the minute that happens we will get more players of higher skill.
And there will also be more ladder games and 1v1's.
All this different games/mods just fragment the community.
Its a known phenomenon that when faced will a lot of options people tend not to choose any of them but if givven less options they will choose one.
If none OTA mods wanna seperate from the OTA fans I personnaly would welcome that.

How about the Test now? Let´s fork up, one version with TA- one without, seperate mains# for both sides.. bad idea..

let´s face it, even the new Mods need the TA-Base as a beginn for Mouth-Propaganda, which means they try to get into the StrategyGamemarket by the Moutprop of a Group of Harcore Nostalgiaplayers, the Nerds of the Nerds, so far out of scale they could get in again from the other side (Look Boss, it isn´t a real Game, its tons of hard work, difficult to learn, noobody else wants anything more then tryout )

Picasso votes for more & better Serverstatistics to reveal if there is hope for Good-Mouthing a Mod through #Games in during the week.. No point discussing, hoping, as long as we are blind