Spring RTS Engine

lurker wrote:Why don't we take the opposite reasoning to its 'logical conclusion'. It's too hard and pointless to make people pick which units they want, it should all be done automatically. Same for all army controls; micro is pointless. Why should I have to press a bunch of buttons and click things to play?

See, strawman arguements are pointless and only make you look foolish.

Picking units is an interesting decision relevant to strategy and tactics. Aside from where to move units, it really is the fundamental decision of gameplay. So, we don't want to automate that.

You are, however, asking exactly the right question. We should be questioning everything that isn't automatic in the game and constantly asking ourselves whether or not it's fun. Giving factories the same build and initial move order every 30 seconds isn't fun - so we automate it.

Hiding information from a player who hasn't memorized it is also not fun. Requiring the player to use the interface in a very unsual and nonintuitive way - pretending to build one of his own structures atop the ghosted one and then drawing a circle around the perimeter - is extremely unfun. So, thank you to the devs for automating the chore.


More generally, we should expect a "skilled" player to win more. This is perfectly fine. However we do need to ask ourselves exactly what skills we want to value. Memorization is a skill. So is clicking speed. But those aren't why I'm playing Spring - I'm playing for strategic and tactical thinking, and entirely different kind of skill.

TY noize, this was smart set of widgets to include. I use range rings and custom for all the time and this widget offer me better bombardment tactics. Its fair to include them.

IMO game is getting better with these smart widgets as i can focus on strategy instead of clicking like mad.

You said you fixed the Blade and Rapier rocket and Modinfo lists those changes on the turnrate of VTOL_ROCKET and VTOL_SABOT but I just extracted the mod file and had a look at the weapon.tdf and there the old values still are in. Could you recheck that please?

EDIT:
Lol you just added another turnrate tag instead of changing the number of the recent one. Just have a look at it - there's one right above the impulse setting at the end...

Pressure Line wrote:this is ba. you dont need to pick units, its all aboot the flash/gator spaem ^__^

Please don't unconstructively troll a mod in its thread.

I don't understand the problem with including defence ranges at all. It's an interface enhancement and a small one at that. It automates no commands. If it's included in the mod everyone can use it as well which elimnates unfair advantage complaints.

Noize does that all the time, adding in new tags rather than changing old ones. Its why the bladewing was broke for so long.

As to micro/knowledge vs tactics/strategy the difference between automating one and the other is that an AI cannot possibly play the game as well as a player. It makes poor unit choices, and poor unit movement choices. If a simple AI can do a task better than the player, then it is probably beneath the attention of the player and poor game design to force him to do it. It is no reflection of his tactical/strategic skill (This is assuming you are designing a tactical/strategic game).

I think there is a place for micro in a game, even things that can be automated just as easily (like d-gunning, which could easily be automated- though i wouldnt be up in arms if someone made a d-gun widget). But if you want a game thats really about micro, play Star Craft or your standard rhythm game. If you want to get really good micro, spring isnt the best place to train even without LUA.

mmmm

no attempt to making useless untis good *sigh* i thought months would bring big changes not taking stuff from CA and changing 2 core things

altho the sea changes cud be intresting

Otherside wrote:mmmm

no attempt to making useless untis good *sigh* i thought months would bring big changes not taking stuff from CA and changing 2 core things

altho the sea changes cud be intresting

qq more

Saktoth wrote:I think there is a place for micro in a game, even things that can be automated just as easily (like d-gunning, which could easily be automated- though i wouldnt be up in arms if someone made a d-gun widget).

+1

Another thing that got my attention:
Shouldn't the Arm Tsunami seaplane bomber also get decreased health? It has the same degradations as the Core one but kept its health while Core got a 30.9% discount (which makes sense due to reduced costs etc.)...

The thing that kills me is 5.8 has been out for so log, and the changelog list could have all been done in about 30 minutes.

Meh. I was at least expecting to see something useful.

Forboding Angel wrote:The thing that kills me is 5.8 has been out for so log, and the changelog list could have all been done in about 30 minutes.

Well at least digging through all the corpses takes longer. Believe me - for preparing my mod I scrolled through all the 12289 lines...

Forboding Angel wrote:Meh. I was at least expecting to see something useful.

Well I think a new sea balance plus finally more reasonable seaplanes is quite something...

One of the few downsides of BA 5.9 might be that the Zipper still got no attention although he's clearly useless (-> more than 3x the costs, less than half the dps plus screwy 60% more health compared to a Peewee and that on T2) and that has been pointed out numerous times by numerous persons even before 5.8...

[Krogoth86] wrote: Well at least digging through all the corpses takes longer. Believe me - for preparing my mod I scrolled through all the 12289 lines...

no it doesn't...

Notepad++

Forboding Angel wrote:The thing that kills me is 5.8 has been out for so log, and the changelog list could have all been done in about 30 minutes.

It's not hard to change things, it's hard to figure out what to change and how much.

BTW:
Concerning the not working Defense Range widget:
I don't know if this changed as I have the newest version of it but here the icons are called air_icon_32.png while you called it just air_icon.png (and so on for the other two). Maybe that's why they don't get displayed...

why did they make doomsday stronger! the annihilators was about 4x weaker than doomsday as it was! Also i'm glad consuls begin faster now i always thought they were too slow.

Why is the Doomsday Machine stronger? Its Sumo Laser has less range now and the Armor "increase" just leads to more inflicted damage when being hit in disabled mode if I'm not totally dislead right now...

Heh, I suppose I just expected more. The one unit spam in BA is still painfully apparent, which is slightly annoying.

Meh. Some effects would have been nice to see...

Forboding Angel wrote:Meh. Some effects would have been nice to see...

That's what lua is for

Forboding Angel wrote:Heh, I suppose I just expected more. The one unit spam in BA is still painfully apparent, which is slightly annoying.

Meh. Some effects would have been nice to see...

go troll other threads

clumsy_culhane wrote:i cant believe BA just took a whole lot straight from CA, then didnt even implement them properly (old LUPS , old defence range...)

LUPS BA:last updated: 30 Oct. 2007

LUPS CA: last updated: 30 Oct. 2007


Defenserange BA: date = "October 21, 2007",
Defenserange CA: date = "October 21, 2007",

With the defense range i messed up with the images that is correct, its being fixed in the 5.91