What the lobby should look like

[Masure]

1st : Satirik never claimed his modified lobby client was his client done from scratched. I don't understand your problem concerning modding something...

2nd : I don't understand anything from your bar graphs. Where does the data come from ? nevermind, all you want to prove is TASClient will be deprecated. I never said it won't . But is this a reason not to update the official TASClient with Satirik's features ?

I think you don't understand me. I don't say TASClient is/will be the best client and don't give my opinion on the others. I just say satririk's running features have to be added to the official client.

Stop argueing for nothing, I'm not against other lobbies, I won't fight against a future possible TASClient death.

[Ishach]

felony 1 - mod

[Masure]

felony 1 - mod

Excuse me but I don't understand what does it mean . Could you please explain ?

Thanks

[Tobi]

http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6693

[Ishach]

Would you rather I mindlessly and endlessly criticized every project that vaugely competed with something I have worked on or plan to work on.

You look at any feature request, any mention of NTAI in the AI forum, any mention of a lobby client, any discussion about a new webpage. AF will be there spewing garbage that has been proven time and again to be completely fabricated (trepan has called him out numerous times in the lua subforum).

Springmark was an entirely optional service for spring users that provided a useful alternative to simply CPU speed in judging a players likelihood to slow down late game. What does AF do? He takes it very personally and trolls the thread until its locked just because he has a bee in his bonnet about a project that needn't concern him in the slightest.

Look at the AI forum. When we had krogothe developing KAI, every KAI thread was always derailed by AF making post after post criticizing KAI's every action. At the same time however, valid critizisms of his own work were countered with outright hostility and rarely - if not never - did he take anyone's advice - it was always someone elses fault.

Satiriks lobby is the most solid and feature rich lobby designed for spring at the moment. What does AF do? Make pages and pages of posts spewing needless criticism that helps no-one.


Why does he do this?

We can only assume AF has a serious problem with anyone starting a project that competes with something of his own and finds it far more important to troll other projects rather than delivering results on his own.




AF often thinks he is the victim, but there are few that are more damaging to the spring community as consistently as he is.

[SwiftSpear]

Ishach: I can't say I entirely disagree with you... that being said, AF doesn't flame you, and he doesn't flame people he's arguing with (although sometimes it boarders on harassment).

I'm willing to work with content creators and thread OP's too clean up and moderate their threads to keep them fitting the environment they want. If need be, that can mean blocking a user from contributing to a thread by deleting all their posts within, and enforcing with administrative action. All that needs to happen is contact with me/another forum moderator.

That being said, 2 important points must be raised.

Felony 10: You never have the right to retaliate against another springer by flaming them.

Also, there is two sides to every story. At least one of the examples there is really sketchy to blame on AF. The springmark thread wasn't locked because of AF. Several users were issuing complaints/suggestions, and JJ's response was generally to flame them. AF was just one of the many at fault for the closure of that thread, certainly JJ is not clean of blame as well. All the other issues as well are equally complex, some in which AF is more of a divisive factor and some of which he is less. It's not moderations job here to take sides and fsk up the other guy's day, moderation, by definition, is to take the center stance and ease both sides into peace. That being said the one thing we can't abide here is intolerance, because that's the one thing that directly conflicts with us doing our jobs.

[edit] Steven: post moving isn't a feature of this forum, it wasn't a long post, repost in the other thread.

[AF]

If I had such a problem with satiriks lobby why am I currently using it instead of betalords official lobby when testing AFLobby?

Could you please provides quotes from the Spring Lobby team telling me how Ive been harassing them and flaming them for starting a competing project?

IIRC the KAI project initially ended because firenu and tournesol finished their degrees and no longer needed KAI to get them their thesis, and krogothe wandered off to start university? Or was that a maelevolent lie purpotrated to cover up their horrific murders involving anvils coated in cookie dough? Whoever heard of an AI developer posting in an AI forum, the ideas absolutely mad!

Or what about the vehement smearing of Spring Mark from its inception, even when I had plans to include it in AFLobby in its early alphas I was secretly plotting to hack the site and put pictures of JJ in furry costumes up for all to see?

Or what about those seemingly harmless criticisms I make with the intention to help and point out area for improvement that underpin a gigantic plot to manipulate and subvert the forums minds into paying me £10,000 a year using hidden messages and subliminal media? Did nobody wonder why I have such bad spelling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Are1oDSczJ4

[tombom]

AF has a rather peculiar way with words

[Machiosabre]

AF has a rather peculiar way with words

Thats a peculiar way of phrasing it.

[el_matarife]

There's also other weird stuff like being unable to copy text from chatlogs, etc.

Yeah ok like everyone knows about ctrl+c...

That said, el_matarife is phail

Control + C does work, which I know about and have been using. However, the Lobby totally ignores the Windows standard Right Click -> Copy way of grabbing text that 99% of other Windows applications use. Right clicking on the main text Window doesn't do anything but clear it, which blows away any text you were trying to copy. The "Clear Window" option should be removed too, if you want to clear out the channel text why not just close the channel and rejoin it?

Finally, in the newest version (B55) of Satirik's updated lobby client I don't have the option to turn off autoscroll in right click, which will make selecting text even harder. I don't know why the autoscroll clears your text selections, which again doesn't seem to be standard Windows behavior.

Another issue is the "Perform" window. This also has weird graphical issues on Vista. (And maybe XP or Wine, I don't want to reboot to check) The whole way the perform commands are setup is pretty strange too. I don't know why the whole thing isn't just one large textbox. Having to separately add each line, then use the delete key to remove any lines you no longer need is a pain. Additionally, the text in that box doesn't have any response to right click at all, much less "copy" which would be pretty useful for editing commands.

Sorry for any confusion, I thought what I was complaining about was fairly obvious. I guess I wasn't paying much attention when I was quickly writing that post before I ran out for the evening.

[Peet]

The "Clear Window" option should be removed too, if you want to clear out the channel text why not just close the channel and rejoin it?

$local in debug mode...tasclient slows down by several hundred percent when there is a huge amount of text in any of the channel tabs.

[el_matarife]

$local in debug mode...tasclient slows down by several hundred percent when there is a huge amount of text in any of the channel tabs.

Okay, that makes sense. However, having an option that permanently clears all the text without an option to undo is a pretty dangerous thing to have easily accessible. Why not add a confirm dialog?

[AF]

Control + C does work, which I know about and have been using. However, the Lobby totally ignores the Windows standard Right Click -> Copy way of grabbing text that 99% of other Windows applications use. If you could point out any places in the other lobbies where this si a problem you could have it corrected within the hour Right clicking on the main text Window doesn't do anything but clear it, which blows away any text you were trying to copy. The "Clear Window" option should be removed too, if you want to clear out the channel text why not just close the channel and rejoin it?
AFLobby has a dedicated clear text button, a confirmation dialog you say? interesting

Finally, in the newest version (B55) of Satirik's updated lobby client I don't have the option to turn off autoscroll in right click, Its a toggle in AFLobbywhich will make selecting text even harder. I don't know why the autoscroll clears your text selections, which again doesn't seem to be standard Windows behavior.

Another issue is the "Perform" window. This also has weird graphical issues on Vista. (And maybe XP or Wine, I don't want to reboot to check) The whole way the perform commands are setup is pretty strange too. I don't know why the whole thing isn't just one large textbox. Having to separately add each line, AFLobby allows more commands such as /join channel1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 no need for hashes. Spring lobby does too I think Im not sure but if you ask your likely to get it there and then, its not that hard to implement then use the delete key to remove any lines you no longer need is a pain. Additionally, the text in that box doesn't have any response to right click at all, much less "copy" which would be pretty useful for editing commands.
You can add a channel to autojoin in a single click, theres a button espcially for adding it in the channels, and you can edit the commands yourself in a big textbox or even in a text editor!.

However you cn edit tasclients list in notepad but it isnt a .txt file rather a .dat file odd

Sorry for any confusion, I thought what I was complaining about was fairly obvious. I guess I wasn't paying much attention when I was quickly writing that post before I ran out for the evening.

It would be very very useful if us lobby developers had long lists of very small but immensely useful features or tweaks that users wanted, things like getting rid of a useless control, adding copy paste menus, undo redo, moving controls around to make things easier, and so on. Theres a lot of features that could be implemented in a minute or less.

[el_matarife]

It would be very very useful if us lobby developers had long lists of very small but immensely useful features or tweaks that users wanted, things like getting rid of a useless control, adding copy paste menus, undo redo, moving controls around to make things easier, and so on. Theres a lot of features that could be implemented in a minute or less.

All of my complaints are about the standard lobby, or Satirik's build of the standard lobby. I just feel like the lobby doesn't behave like a standard Windows application, and those behavioral issues can be annoying sometimes, or confusing for new users. I had to write out a tutorial with screenshots to teach new people how to use the Perform options for instance.

I'll see if I can spend an hour or so playing with your lobby later tonight or sometime later this week. I'll go through it looking for these kinds of things and I'll PM or MSN you some notes on my user experience if you want this kind of feedback.

Anyway, the reason I suggest a confirmation dialog or moving the clear text option from the right click menu is a simple use case. If you select some text and right click for copy, clearing all the text is easy to accidentally hit and isn't something that you can undo. We shouldn't make it easy to screw up that badly, because right now I guarantee you that some people will accidentally hit clear text and immediately be pretty unhappy at the results.

[SwiftSpear]

Autoscroll: Most IRC clients do not have an "autoscroll" toggle.

The reason being is that it's unnessicary for one primary reason. You have a scrollbar. Now there is a very simple and fair assumption made by IRC client designers that I think spring lobbies could benifit from. If a user is scrolled to the bottom of the scrollbar, he is reading the current conversation and should be auto scrolling to keep up with new things being said. If a user is scrolled ANYWHERE else in the scrollbar, the current conversation is out of his screen, and therefore he cannot possibly be reading the current conversation, and therefore he should not be auto scrolling. There really is no need for these complicated toggles and check boxes, just set up the system the standard, user intuitive way that most chat rooms/chat clients use.

[Masure]

Autoscroll: Most IRC clients do not have an "autoscroll" toggle.

The reason being is that it's unnessicary for one primary reason. You have a scrollbar. Now there is a very simple and fair assumption made by IRC client designers that I think spring lobbies could benifit from. If a user is scrolled to the bottom of the scrollbar, he is reading the current conversation and should be auto scrolling to keep up with new things being said. If a user is scrolled ANYWHERE else in the scrollbar, the current conversation is out of his screen, and therefore he cannot possibly be reading the current conversation, and therefore he should not be auto scrolling. There really is no need for these complicated toggles and check boxes, just set up the system the standard, user intuitive way that most chat rooms/chat clients use.

Satirik's modified client (>build44) automatically disables autoscroll when you re not at the bottom of the scrollbar.

[SwiftSpear]

Autoscroll: Most IRC clients do not have an "autoscroll" toggle.

The reason being is that it's unnessicary for one primary reason. You have a scrollbar. Now there is a very simple and fair assumption made by IRC client designers that I think spring lobbies could benifit from. If a user is scrolled to the bottom of the scrollbar, he is reading the current conversation and should be auto scrolling to keep up with new things being said. If a user is scrolled ANYWHERE else in the scrollbar, the current conversation is out of his screen, and therefore he cannot possibly be reading the current conversation, and therefore he should not be auto scrolling. There really is no need for these complicated toggles and check boxes, just set up the system the standard, user intuitive way that most chat rooms/chat clients use.

Satirik's modified client (>build44) automatically disables autoscroll when you re not at the bottom of the scrollbar.

Ya well, it's not exactly revolutionary. So does MSN, Every chatroom client ever, every IRC client, teamspeak chat. I'm sure even other TAS lobby builders have done it. Betalord didn't, most likely because he just threw the chat part of TASclient together haphazardly partially expecting the lobby to be temporary and replaced eventually. For some reason AF seems to be adressing the problem in the same way betalord did... That's the point, it's already been done better elsewhere, lets NOT use betalords TAS lobby as our primary inspiration for lobby development, it is SOOOO broken in SOOOO many ways.

[Dragon45]

everyone should ignore isaac's post here like they always do

who cares if he put thought into it


smurg

[Neddie]

Oye, I'm gone for two days, and this happens?

I always read Isaac's posts.

[AF]

And Satiriks client fails miserably at doing it. I keep heving to scroll all the way down and click the cursor just after the veyr last character to keep it scrolling.

And I have a toggle in AFLobby because my initial attempt at using proper auto scrolling failed because I wasn't very experienced with swing GUI at the time and I never bothered again after that.