Spring RTS Engine

Cool. I'll play more once the next version's out. (Kinda busy RL right now, so not much time to grab one of my Windows boxes and play)

Even if the balance isn't perfect, you've succeeded in creating a mod that's easy to learn and loads of fun to play. Just throwing two armies of mobile suits at each other is a blast. Good job.

Thanks eg, I hope that my future plans will add to the fun.

The mod is great, thanks for the effort! :D I didin't think much about the idea until I played. :] Sieg Zeon! Definitely! I love playing Zeon, but I agree with the suggestion to, perhaps, limit that sound to some big structures (Underground Factory perhaps?)

The mod plays great even as it is, still some suggestions on my part:

• - The epic commanders are a bit overdone I think, maybe those units can be used as 'super weapons', but only after the struggle to build them? Also I think the Gau is too big (2/3 would be better perhaps?), the model is definitely avesome! :D If it was smaller, I would also see it more manouverable, but less armed...
  - Also about scale, Zeon hovercraft seem too big... I understand their armament etc. but the capability to carry only four units somehow seems insignificant compared to their size... I'm not saying make it carry more, maybe just make it 4/5 of it's size...
  - An interesting fact is that Zeon commander (small) can build Dodai II's... In theory that is, I never found a spot that i could build it on. Is that a bug (viewed from any perspective)?
  - And what are those rocket launchers on Zaku IIplus for? They don't seem to have a function, but I think the idea is nice.
  - I'm looking into it, maybe the GM sniper can be made to kneel before shooting? That would add to its feel (as a sharp shooter) and also compensate for his range (no move and fire also?). BTW, is it an indirect fire weapon? In 08th MS anime it was possible to direct their fire from large distances, and in game terms, *IF* their LOS is shorter than beam rifle range, they had to stop to shoot, and need 'spotters' that would compensate in terms of balance...
  - Fan Fan, does it have a function? It's easy to shoot down being slow, and does not pack any punch... Maybe it should shoot a volley/swarm of missiles (what are those big launchers for?), only reload slowly? That would make it a good hit-and(hopefully)-run weapon.

I was also thinking of some super weapons, Hildolfr (YMT-05) mobile armour for Zeon for example... That would be a big tank-like model, very manouverable and fast, and with a decently ranged cannon (an improvement on Xemels, only on tracks?). It was an experimental weapon, and I think it would not upset the ballance, being reasonably expensive. I'll try working on the model...

If you don't mind, can I post any further suggestions? I'll try to implement then on my own, and see how that works out... I can send the files that I modify/create, if you are interested in any help.

Smoth craves input/suggestions/complaints (reasoned) about the mod. He doesn't have a problem with doing the work himself, so you'd probably be better off just telling him what to do, rather than sending him altered files.

EDIT: Some units will be quite different when unit limits get implemented which may affect some of your suggestions...

I really like the whole 'mega com's'.

I agree with Aun better to post everything and i mean everything cause he will take it into account. He has been working on this for nearly two years and he has his design doc which afaik is pretty thorough. (takin in the limits of the enigine). now to address some of the points u made.

the whole can't build dodai thing is a spring bug.. apparently u need completetly flat ground to build them on which is hard to find on most maps.

those rl's ( i assume u mean the leg mounted ones) work but have a limited fire arc. also they way Spring handles fire points projectiles and such means that although they fire they don't function as well as they should. for instance they won't, gain altitude if their target is behind a terrain deformity that blocks the shot. Basically they work but if the terrain ur fighting on is a little uneven they may not hit their target.

as to the GM snipers i can't really comment that much. But, i will say this, if u think they are OP let him know and he'll look into it. also which one the regular or the Sniper II? while they have powerful weapons they are easy to kill (my unit of choice is tanks as they have decent power and cheap enough to spam that they can't all be killed)

Fan-Fan.... honestly i don't build it yeah maybe it could use a bit more usefulness but afaik the unit as it is now is true to canon, i think?

Finnally he wants to put in superunits but he would rather wait for unit limits so that he can make them truly powerful. ATM he is contemplatin the Big Zam for Zeon.

And the Apsalus.

Damn knew i forgot somebody, but the big zam might be put in first since there is that supposed mass produced version smoth found.

Ok, so I won't be messing with a project that is so well planned...

Yes, there are two types of snipers, but the suggestion is generally on snipers.

Ok, the mega comms are a good idea, only now it turns out to be... um... difficult to play with them... And I'm in pain when I see the Gau almost immobile...

Another suggestion, the Zeon do not have a 'fan fan' type wepon, and I recall they had a gunship, so if it is not included in the plans that's my suggestion.

BTW, if something is not to be done, I can always make a 'unit pack', maybe if you have some time, Smoth, perhaps you could post a 'road map' of units/features you want to include?

There is also a possibility to develop a different mod, 'Gundam Space' for example, it would have good potential.

if the coms were really fast then com rushing would become absurd in this mod hence their slow speeds.

im gonna pm u with a list smoth has of things he is wishy-washy about adding or telling people about. respond to it with a pm to him or me with your thoughts.

Space mods aren't the most idylic setting for the Spring engine. also in space the GMs make use of the vernier thrusters allowing incredible manuverability which just isn't representable in the engine atm. limited fuel will be possible next version but the whole "docking with a carrier ship" isn't handled well in spring. all we have atm is basically the pads from the C&C games where the unit lands reloads and then takes off again all the while visible during the process.

WOOT! FEEDBACK!

/me gets out ta' do list!

Freder wrote:The mod is great, thanks for the effort! :D I didin't think much about the idea until I played. :] Sieg Zeon! Definitely! I love playing Zeon, but I agree with the suggestion to, perhaps, limit that sound to some big structures (Underground Factory perhaps?)

yeah, I have suggestions already to remove it from the mines etc.

Freder wrote:The epic commanders are a bit overdone I think, maybe those units can be used as 'super weapons', but only after the struggle to build them?

You have super weapons, the alex and xamel can be pretty abusive, then there is the goufh and the rx78...

Freder wrote: Also I think the Gau is too big (2/3 would be better perhaps?), the model is definitely avesome! :D If it was smaller, I would also see it more manouverable, but less armed...

It is made as per the actual fluff. It IS that big, Garma Zabi and Yuri Kellarny both use it as their command vessel.

Freder wrote: Also about scale, Zeon hovercraft seem too big... I understand their armament etc. but the capability to carry only four units somehow seems insignificant compared to their size... I'm not saying make it carry more, maybe just make it 4/5 of it's size...

Again, that is to scale. However, you also miss the fact that it has a giant cannon on it's back. When fighting the best way to use the gallop is to deploy your troops then turn it 180 and set it on hold position so it can offer fire support. It is really quite abusive when used right. Also, the xamel IS that big.

Freder wrote: - An interesting fact is that Zeon commander (small) can build Dodai II's... In theory that is, I never found a spot that i could build it on. Is that a bug (viewed from any perspective)?

Spring bug. When we get mobile factories that will change :).

Freder wrote: - And what are those rocket launchers on Zaku IIplus for? They don't seem to have a function, but I think the idea is nice.

limited fire arc. In the current version of spring they will not use them too well but in the next version the firearc bugs are addressed and the zaku2rls are more devastating. However, in general they are still pretty nice because they do fast dps when they are used.

Freder wrote: - I'm looking into it, maybe the GM sniper can be made to kneel before shooting?

As much as I want to, it can't be done in a way that makes me happy because they will not hold possition when firing.

Freder wrote: That would add to its feel (as a sharp shooter) and also compensate for his range (no move and fire also?). BTW, is it an indirect fire weapon? In 08th MS anime it was possible to direct their fire from large distances, and in game terms, *IF* their LOS is shorter than beam rifle range, they had to stop to shoot, and need 'spotters' that would compensate in terms of balance...

They do need spotters and their range is shortened for good reason, seriously most good federation players love the dude. However, since I cannot keep people from building it in the hundreds I have to make it's range and damage limited to a reasonable scale. As far as spotters, yes spotters are needed and it IS detailed in the wiki as such.

Freder wrote: - Fan Fan, does it have a function? It's easy to shoot down being slow, and does not pack any punch... Maybe it should shoot a volley/swarm of missiles (what are those big launchers for?), only reload slowly?

They have a straifing attack and can be used VERY well to take out enemy rear resources.

Freder wrote: I was also thinking of some super weapons, Hildolfr (YMT-05) mobile armour for Zeon for example

MSIGLOO is WAY off as far as UC story line. that seriously should be purged at all costs.

Freder wrote: That would be a big tank-like model, very maneuverable and fast, and with a decently ranged cannon

the gallop does all of this, hovers and can carry MS.

Freder wrote: If you don't mind, can I post any further suggestions?

I am all about it, The more suggestions the better. I feed on them.

Freder wrote: Ok, so I won't be messing with a project that is so well planned...

I don't mind having help, I need things modeled out but I am very particular about how they are done. I can be somewhat overbearing. If you want to help, you can but I will likely be very harsh on your work as I want things in a very particular way.

Freder wrote: Yes, there are two types of snipers, but the suggestion is generally on snipers.

J5, he is talking about the rgm79G sniper variant. It is the dark olive one.

Freder wrote: Ok, the mega comms are a good idea, only now it turns out to be... um... difficult to play with them... And I'm in pain when I see the Gau almost immobile...

J5mello answered this but I should probably explain that your commander is sort of like a King in chess. That is you, and your command is stationed there as well. Unless it is the final assualt you are going to stay behind anyway.

Freder wrote: Another suggestion, the Zeon do not have a 'fan fan' type wepon, and I recall they had a gunship, so if it is not included in the plans that's my suggestion.

they have the gouf flight type which eats gunships for breakfast with a side of banana and syrup.

Freder wrote: BTW, if something is not to be done, I can always make a 'unit pack', maybe if you have some time, Smoth, perhaps you could post a 'road map' of units/features you want to include?

It is on the wiki, but again, I am VERY particular about details. I don not object to it if you make a unit pack to submit to the mod but bear in mind that I will want them do to a certain quality level and with a good bit of modeling efficiency.

Freder wrote: There is also a possibility to develop a different mod, 'Gundam Space' for example, it would have good potential.

Can't really be done in spring and function well. I also have a prefference for the land war side of gundam.

Stuff for you to read
gundam wiki

Thanks for all of the input, I really don't mind that you post ideas but bear in mind that there are several things that I will not add that exist in the UC. It is ok to ask but don't get upset if I reject the idea. Many poeple to submit ideas and just the other day someone told me about the rgm-79-grs, which I added to the list.

As far as balance, things are balanced to where they are now. However, when/if unit limits are implemented you will see a HUGE plethora of ace pilots and special mechs in the mod. Many of the current mechs will increase in power once I can limit their numbers.

so help support Smoth in his never ending quest to get unit limits added by supporting him in the aptly named Unit Limit thread located in teh development forum.

yeah that and melee weapons .

Now I read the Wiki carefully rather than skimmed it... Sorry for any repeats that you made on me...

Now, on the subject. There are few water units in this mod. I know it is ground combat oriented, but fighting on Earth also took place under water... Maybe that's the category of units/buildings I could work on, not to destibilise your vision of this mod.

Now, a unit request, what do you think of adding a Zeon Heli Gunship? The function (and most other features)would be the same as that of 'Fan Fan' most probably... I think the only problem is the rotor wouldn't move, like with Gunperry...

Have you tested the mod with 4-way building rotation? I tried it, works nice, only units face wrong way when being built. I posted on the 4-way building thread to see how it can be fixed (factories that rotate while building, in OTA or AA, do not have this issue). Also that patch spoils your 'foundations' as they do not rotate...

One other question, has anyone played with an AI (I tried NTAI) when using Epic Comms? All I get is it stands idle, and when it sees any of my units, it charges my base (and dies in effect)...

PS About the Zaku IIplus leg mounted rl's, maybe they should be ballistic weapons, like with M-61s? I've seen them launching like that, unfortunately, in igLoo...

I've found that ,ost AIs don't work well with this, but had the most success with AAI. There should be a mod file for an old version of Gundam with it, just rename it to the filename of the version you're using.

Freder wrote:Now I read the Wiki carefully rather than skimmed it... Sorry for any repeats that you made on me...

Freder wrote:Now, on the subject. There are few water units in this mod. I know it is ground combat oriented, but fighting on Earth also took place under water... Maybe that's the category of units/buildings I could work on, not to destibilise your vision of this mod.

There are not enough in the fluff to do. Gundam is sorely lacking it water ships.. but that might be because that big flying salmasis cruisers.

Freder wrote:Now, a unit request, what do you think of adding a Zeon Heli Gunship? The function (and most other features)would be the same as that of 'Fan Fan' most probably... I think the only problem is the rotor wouldn't move, like with Gunperry...

oh yeah, I need to look into that bug! The zeon heli didn't really serve much use, it's missiles at best were good against tanks :\.

Freder wrote:Have you tested the mod with 4-way building rotation?

yeah, it was sexy but it didn't rotate the unit or ground decal .

Freder wrote:I posted on the 4-way building thread to see how it can be fixed (factories that rotate while building, in OTA or AA, do not have this issue). Also that patch spoils your 'foundations' as they do not rotate...

yeah AA uses a rotating nano point which means that the units face almost random directions. Something that would look odd in my factories.

Freder wrote:One other question, has anyone played with an AI (I tried NTAI) when using Epic Comms? All I get is it stands idle, and when it sees any of my units, it charges my base (and dies in effect)...

I perpetually bitch about the lack of gundam capable ais :\.

Freder wrote:PS About the Zaku IIplus leg mounted rl's, maybe they should be ballistic weapons, like with M-61s? I've seen them launching like that, unfortunately, in igLoo...

yah, omit igloo.

They still are so low to the ground that most of the time they will hit the other units.

Check you pms.

smoth wrote:I perpetually bitch about the lack of gundam capable ais :\.

I can try to do an NTAI buildtree once 1.1 is approaching final release stage.

Current AAI works quite well with Gundam, but just renaming the old Gundam config to match 1.1 preview file name is not a good idea. It does some crazy things with scout selection (XAMEL is seen as a scout for example). Next AAI version will probably have a much better config for Gundam 1.1.
It's quite easy to fix the config for old version to work with 1.1 - it just needs manually specified scouts and SCOUT_SPEED set very high (like 10 times what it is now) to prevent AAI from qualifying any other units as scouts.
Btw, I have made quite a number of AAI vs AAI games of 1.1 preview, and every time Federation defeated Zeon.

mind posting the code for the file so I can see how to set up the aai thing?

goto aidll/globalai/AAI/cfg/help & you'll find Sub's explanations for all the cfg files