Spring RTS Engine

download resume and bla is not the problem.
the problem is 1v0ry_k1ng what posted and torrent does not help that.

The other problem is that you have to make it as simple as possible for new players.
So you are bored on the internet doing boring internetstuff:

Oh, some game. Looks remotely interessting. 500 mb *downloads and forgets about it, never installs*

People decide in the first moments if something interesstes them.
And on the internet, attention spans are extra short.
video buffers too slow - close tab.
thread not lolzy in first post - close tab.
"this website require derp please update your herp" - close tab.
So even a 5 minutes download & install can be a barrier. If they want to look at more lolcats or porn instead, they keep scrolling.

knorke wrote:download resume and bla is not the problem.
the problem is 1v0ry_k1ng what posted and torrent does not help that.

The other problem is that you have to make it as simple as possible for new players.
So you are bored on the internet doing boring internetstuff:
[img]-[/img]
Oh, some game. Looks remotely interessting. 500 mb *downloads and forgets about it, never installs*

People decide in the first moments if something interesstes them.
And on the internet, attention spans are extra short.
video buffers too slow - close tab.
thread not lolzy in first post - close tab.
"this website require derp please update your herp" - close tab.
So even a 5 minutes download & install can be a barrier. If they want to look at more lolcats or porn instead, they keep scrolling.

I don't want those people in spring anyway. Not only will they leave at the first sign of a map/new mod download, also its the kind of gamer that came into existence when consoles brought gaming to everyone. Its the kind of gamer 'arcade-mode' got invented for (which is ruining games till this day and will be ruining games for a long time to come). Its the kind of gamer that will fail in spring.

So please Smoth, put everything you think makes your mod great into the installer.

PS. Get a decent conn.

I don't want those people in spring anyway. Not only will they leave at the first sign of a map/new mod download, also its the kind of gamer that came into existence when consoles brought gaming to everyone. Its the kind of gamer 'arcade-mode' got invented for (which is ruining games till this day and will be ruining games for a long time to come). Its the kind of gamer that will fail in spring.

That is the STUPIDEST thing i have ever read.

Alot of people spend time browsing the internet out of boredom, id say it is probably the majority of people who will stumble upon* spring.
You eliminate that demographic and you're left with the minuscule advertising that spring has, and the people brought in through word of mouth (which tends to vary, in both size and quality)

As for "Leaving at the first sign of a new map/mod" well, look at MMO's, or the latest FPS. It happens, it happens everywhere no matter what you do.
>new MMO comes out
>plenty of players, lots of WoW people trying it out
>6 months later
>community has shrunken majorly as those who the game didnt catch move back. (However note: some do stay because the game suits them)

Note "didnt catch". We want as much advertisement for spring as possible, we WANT those players to atleast try the game. So what if they move on back to SC2 or supcom or whatever, atleast they tried. If we convert some players over, the more the merrier. So what if i didnt like X, Y, Z mod, i still play ZK and i atleast try to enjoy other mods.

Also your console rant is rather over used. why people complain about consoles is beyond me i have both, i find consoles are better for some things where as PC's others. Complaining that consoles "make gamers casual hurr" is rather biased, if you want to use the same reasoning i could complain that facebook is making the internet casual hurr (which it is if you use your definition of the word "casual" ).

Arcade mode was invented so PC/Console ports of arcade games could be played as they were in the arcade. (not because of some misplaced accusations about simplifying games)

If you want to complain about how games are "getting turned all casual and dumbed down hurr" then you need to look at what sells and what doesn't. Games are user friendly and simple to get more players to try it and get hooked.

to be honest you just sound incredibly frustrated that your super select and secret skills gaming club is opening its doors for new players by leveling the playing field avoiding over complicating things.

Its the same argument WoW players go through every update to the starter zones, or the same argument that the counter strike community went through when CS got advertised (or something i dont know the details of the CS one, was just the same "amg mah newbiz in mah gaems whered dey come from?")

*no reference to the website, and no i dont mean the majority of internet users. i mean the majority of people who find spring outside of advertising/WoM.

At the sight of a Spring game not everybody will go "omg super cool free rtrs engine lots games omomgomg must download." Many will think more along "hm thats perhaps interessting, maybe." Thats only natural.
I agree that modern games are often totally dumb but what does that have to do with anything? Might as well respond that todays games are bloated pieces of crap and every game should fit on a floppy like they used to, missing the point all the same.

So what? Should Smoth develop a MiniMod- a one map, two gundams - casual gamer shooter? With a big "Wouldyouliketoloadmoar?" button?

Echo419 wrote: 500mb is pretty big, especially for some of us in Australia or NZ where internet isnt something particularly great to everyone out side of the CBD's

Like wtf, Im in NZ, not near the CBD and I still get up to 1 MB per sec on good days

When the revolution comes, the poor players of the world shall but those Bigburgeousis like you smoth against the wall

Of cause, you die of old age then, because the peoples guns take ages to load...

Echo419 wrote:

I don't want those people in spring anyway. Not only will they leave at the first sign of a map/new mod download, also its the kind of gamer that came into existence when consoles brought gaming to everyone. Its the kind of gamer 'arcade-mode' got invented for (which is ruining games till this day and will be ruining games for a long time to come). Its the kind of gamer that will fail in spring.

That is the STUPIDEST thing i have ever read.

Alot of people spend time browsing the internet out of boredom, id say it is probably the majority of people who will stumble upon* spring.
You eliminate that demographic and you're left with the minuscule advertising that spring has, and the people brought in through word of mouth (which tends to vary, in both size and quality)

As for "Leaving at the first sign of a new map/mod" well, look at MMO's, or the latest FPS. It happens, it happens everywhere no matter what you do.
>new MMO comes out
>plenty of players, lots of WoW people trying it out
>6 months later
>community has shrunken majorly as those who the game didnt catch move back. (However note: some do stay because the game suits them)

Note "didnt catch". We want as much advertisement for spring as possible, we WANT those players to atleast try the game. So what if they move on back to SC2 or supcom or whatever, atleast they tried. If we convert some players over, the more the merrier. So what if i didnt like X, Y, Z mod, i still play ZK and i atleast try to enjoy other mods.

Also your console rant is rather over used. why people complain about consoles is beyond me i have both, i find consoles are better for some things where as PC's others. Complaining that consoles "make gamers casual hurr" is rather biased, if you want to use the same reasoning i could complain that facebook is making the internet casual hurr (which it is if you use your definition of the word "casual" ).

Arcade mode was invented so PC/Console ports of arcade games could be played as they were in the arcade. (not because of some misplaced accusations about simplifying games)

If you want to complain about how games are "getting turned all casual and dumbed down hurr" then you need to look at what sells and what doesn't. Games are user friendly and simple to get more players to try it and get hooked.

to be honest you just sound incredibly frustrated that your super select and secret skills gaming club is opening its doors for new players by leveling the playing field avoiding over complicating things.

Its the same argument WoW players go through every update to the starter zones, or the same argument that the counter strike community went through when CS got advertised (or something i dont know the details of the CS one, was just the same "amg mah newbiz in mah gaems whered dey come from?")

*no reference to the website, and no i dont mean the majority of internet users. i mean the majority of people who find spring outside of advertising/WoM.

You kinda missed the point here. I am actually not blaming everything on these potential players; spring is relatively hard to use either way. I am saying that people who are hindered by a 5-20 minute download will quit anyway. They cannot handle the spring dynamic. Do not make spring games less for everyone in a futile attempt to lure these potential players in.

About the casual/arcade/console rant. Yes, I have been gaming for quite a while. Yes, I have above average skills. Yes, the word arcade has origins.. Yet I am using it here to try to explain a much newer process. Since console are effectively dominating the gaming market, lets say from xbox/ps2 on games have been increasingly made primarily for the console market. Games these days in large part are being made cross-platform, with a focus on consoles. Since consoles have shit-controllers, which cause the need to limit precision control, games are getting dumbed down*. Often the 'dumbing down' cant even be switched off in the PC version of a game. Games become boring, too easy (despite the so called 'impossible modes'. Ergo; the primacy of consoles in gaming is fucking up PC-gaming. Furthermore my argument was that the giant group of people for whom this 'user-friendliness' was created were the people that would not game if it wasn't for a simple box to connect to their TV instead of a pc. These people are not used to, or willing to actually make an effort for their gaming needs (now remember the first paragraph of this post).

By now you must realise that the frustration you see is not caused by the reasons you provide. I like new players; I advise them, provide dl links, etc. Yet the lack of insight displayed here in the problematic of potential players is potentially causing a decreased playing experience for me, and any spring player.

That being sad I think this is way to much text for saying: its only 500mb so stop whining.

*If you do not believe me check for example:
Crysis vs Crysis 2
Mass effect vs Mass effect 2
Numerous other titles.

here smoth i have a solution for you,

release your huge game pack, with all the maps and models and stuff...

then a few months later release the mod and maps individually


this way, people that dl the game becasue of the hype of the new ver comeing out will download everything......
and later in the long run the people who are not rlly into it can invest less time downloading in order to try ur game(just download the mod and a map...or maybe use a normal spring map they already have)


.......three f-ing pages of just straight up complaining.....

i dont care how fast the internet might be available now o days, the reality is the 500 mb is a big deal for most people......this is like the arguement about how it is cool to make mods more cpu/graphicly intensive becasue most modern comp can handel it, but the reality is that most spring player's comps are not that great...spring caters to a specific niches, and people with bad comps is one.....

acutally i think that one of the reasons that spring has been able to be successful is that people download the content they need as they go along, instead of dl-ing 1.5 giga bites just to be able to play the game...

Smoth, stop forcing your will upon people with your telepathical powers. Its over! No more mindfuckery, you aint Yuri. Accept the world wants to be free to decide.

you are now aware this is a 3 pages thread about 2 chat lines from some random guy with internet blocked by his sister and cocaine on his balls.

nightcold wrote:here smoth i have a solution for you,

release your huge game pack, with all the maps and models and stuff...

I already do that

nightcold wrote:here smoth i have a solution for you,

release your huge game pack, with all the maps and models and stuff...

then a few months later release the mod and maps individually


this way, people that dl the game becasue of the hype of the new ver comeing out will download everything......
and later in the long run the people who are not rlly into it can invest less time downloading in order to try ur game(just download the mod and a map...or maybe use a normal spring map they already have)


.......three f-ing pages of just straight up complaining.....

i dont care how fast the internet might be available now o days, the reality is the 500 mb is a big deal for most people......this is like the arguement about how it is cool to make mods more cpu/graphicly intensive becasue most modern comp can handel it, but the reality is that most spring player's comps are not that great...spring caters to a specific niches, and people with bad comps is one.....

acutally i think that one of the reasons that spring has been able to be successful is that people download the content they need as they go along, instead of dl-ing 1.5 giga bites just to be able to play the game...

Rapid FFS guys...

Maybe tasclient and springlobby need built-in rapid downloaders because it is a pain that people are taking so long to adopt this.

just get the ZK lobby. it does it for you! and its FAR more reliable than the other two. I've only had it fail once.

luckywaldo7 wrote:Rapid FFS guys...

Does rapid setup a shortcut to the single player? NO
Does rapid ensure that the players have the official maps? NO

Huh?

Package everything, then use rapid for updates.

For old-timers, rapid alone is enough.

smoth wrote:Does rapid setup a shortcut to the single player? NO

Rapid is not an installer replacement.

Does rapid ensure that the players have the official maps? NO

You could force this via dependencies. Not pretty but possible.

SirMaverick wrote:

smoth wrote:Does rapid setup a shortcut to the single player? NO

Rapid is not an installer replacement.

exactly my point.

smoth wrote:

nightcold wrote:here smoth i have a solution for you,

release your huge game pack, with all the maps and models and stuff...

I already do that

look...at...the....line...below.....that.... T-T

the reason i made that suggestion is because it is not too dramatically different from what you are doing now...

all the grts maps are already released, all you have to do is release the mod....make both the full version and just the mod available publicly


and on next version(which will be like a year from now), release the mod individually a month or two after the initial release...this way you can force most spring players that are already intrested in grts to have ur maps(most downloads on a mod is shortly of after its release), and the random player that sees a grts game and wants to join in can easily(a month or two after initial release).....

w8, was this thread actually to help smooth develop a solution....or for, you know....the developers to complain about the public from like 5 pages

nightcold wrote:

smoth wrote:

nightcold wrote:here smoth i have a solution for you,

release your huge game pack, with all the maps and models and stuff...

I already do that

look...at...the....line...below.....that.... T-T

the reason i made that suggestion is because it is not too dramatically different from what you are doing now...

all the grts maps are already released, all you have to do is release the mod....make both the full version and just the mod available publicly


and on next version(which will be like a year from now), release the mod individually a month or two after the initial release...this way you can force most spring players that are already intrested in grts to have ur maps(most downloads on a mod is shortly of after its release), and the random player that sees a grts game and wants to join in can easily(a month or two after initial release).....