Spring RTS Engine

CarRepairer wrote:You are saying that someone should not be a moderator because they are hosting the site. But the "should" is not what's reality. As long as he has the ability to moderate, he's a moderator. I'm just being technical on the definition (just like others were before me). He can choose not to exercise that power, but he has that power. Just like any moderator who chooses not to do anything.

No, I am saying that hosting shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on whether he is or is not a moderator/responsible for moderation. Even if he has that power to moderate, he is not in right to do so (assuming he is not chosen to be a moderator) as he volunteered to host the server.

Again, I am not saying that he shouldn't be a moderator because he is hosting.

Regret wrote:No, I am saying that hosting shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on whether he is or is not a moderator/responsible for moderation. Even if he has that power to moderate, he is not in right to do so (assuming he is not chosen to be a moderator) as he volunteered to host the server.

Isn't he? I don't think he signed a legal contract. We are engaging in communication through his personal property, so he's in his right to do whatever he wants as long as it's not illegal. He could change the rules right now, or whatever. It would be "mean" if he did something like kick random people, but he's within his right. Of course he wouldn't do such thing because if he were that kind of person the community would not agree to host on his computer.

It's like a restaurant that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." It's private property. We live in a free society.

CarRepairer wrote:Isn't he? I don't think he signed a legal contract. We are engaging in communication through his personal property, so he's in his right to do whatever he wants as long as it's not illegal. He could change the rules right now, or whatever. It would be "mean" if he did something like kick random people, but he's within his right. Of course he wouldn't do such thing because if he were that kind of person the community would not agree to host on his computer.

It's like a restaurant that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." It's private property. We live in a free society.

Of course he can legally do whatever the fuck he pleases with his property. You are still trying hard to misunderstand me for some reason.

I understand your point. I was trying to help the conversation along by saying it's moot to even discuss whether the server host should or should not have moderation powers. He has the power by default and it cannot be taken away.

So focus on the OP again (which I don't agree with).

Omg, give community power to moderate via votings(or something similar) and move moderators to shadow, so noone knows who are they and what are they doing :) Less flame - same effect and community will be happy - "We are doing it ourselves!"

I haven't yet encountered mod rights abuse, which is a merit by the moderating team. Indicates that the moderators are capable of acting like they should.

Even if the mentioned Licho is a lobby moderator he hasn't even muted anyone for stating their opinion about CA, even if the opinion was IT SUX. Seriously, a grown up with the responsibility of a moderator must be able to handle differing opinions verbally like any other user of the lobby.

If the differing opinion escalates to spamming SUX SUX SUX all over and contributes nothing to the discussion, it is correct to remove one from the channel, but not the lobby. This can be done even by channel founder so everything is fine, no?

Deal harshly with moderators abusing their powers, but artificial limits like what this topic is about are really not needed.

Regret wrote:

CarRepairer wrote:You are saying that someone should not be a moderator because they are hosting the site. But the "should" is not what's reality. As long as he has the ability to moderate, he's a moderator. I'm just being technical on the definition (just like others were before me). He can choose not to exercise that power, but he has that power. Just like any moderator who chooses not to do anything.

No, I am saying that hosting shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on whether he is or is not a moderator/responsible for moderation. Even if he has that power to moderate, he is not in right to do so (assuming he is not chosen to be a moderator) as he volunteered to host the server.

Again, I am not saying that he shouldn't be a moderator because he is hosting.

He was a mod FAR before he started hosting the server. Also, someone who could not be trusted to be a mod could DEFINITELY not be trusted to host the server. You are approaching this backwards.

Peet wrote:

Regret wrote:

CarRepairer wrote:You are saying that someone should not be a moderator because they are hosting the site. But the "should" is not what's reality. As long as he has the ability to moderate, he's a moderator. I'm just being technical on the definition (just like others were before me). He can choose not to exercise that power, but he has that power. Just like any moderator who chooses not to do anything.

No, I am saying that hosting shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on whether he is or is not a moderator/responsible for moderation. Even if he has that power to moderate, he is not in right to do so (assuming he is not chosen to be a moderator) as he volunteered to host the server.

Again, I am not saying that he shouldn't be a moderator because he is hosting.

He was a mod FAR before he started hosting the server. Also, someone who could not be trusted to be a mod could DEFINITELY not be trusted to host the server. You are approaching this backwards.

I like how I restated 2 times that I did not mean Licho should not be a moderator, yet you read precisely the opposite. Good job!

That wasn't what I was arguing at all.

Peet wrote:That wasn't what I was arguing at all.

Then you perhaps didn't read what I wrote?

Regret wrote:(assuming he is not chosen to be a moderator)

You clearly did not comprehend the discussion between me and Car.

As peet said, I was moderator about 2-3 years before I started hosting spring.
Only privilege I gained by hosting server was forum admin, which I used once, to rename forum subcategory.

Phear my evil moderation powers!

Licho wrote:Only privilege I gained by hosting server was forum admin, which I used once, to rename forum subcategory.

Admin abuse.

I think I should start a thread called "Mod Developers should not have right to post on forums. Ever."

All this discusions are because we are failing to moderate moderators correctly.

power abuse, wrong moderating, lazy moderating, non existant moderating, clan mafias, player hating etc, are not being addressed, and thus leading to a chaotic situation.

so we better do something about that instead.

Come on, you're going to claim all those things exist, give no details, and walk away?

Well, there is usual threads get derailed, and flooded with crap, yet admins dont clean/split them or call to order. Thats what i call bad moderation.

At times in lobby there is poor moderation.
but that is the less of the times, as there is really not much chat going on in main latelly.


Also, making moderators untouchable as someone has been suggesting, making them invisible untrackable, or not sure what else has been suggested, is wrong, bc then this will really lead to power abuse and the inability of the users know what happened.


As for clan mafias, its unprobable/really hard to prove.
But its obvious this can happen, and can be avoided, by not having a majority of people from certain clan/mod etc as moderators.



The key line is we must ask for better moderation, discuss about it, report it, and not lock the threads in which that happens.

That way we will get better moderation, even if its a modmaker, map maker, clanleader, coder widget maker, plain player, or nothing of that, like some moderators are (wich is wrong, moderators should at least be players).

We must discuss for better forum moderation.
And do something about it, if the moderators fail to acomplish their volunteer job.

mongus wrote:Well, there is usual threads get derailed, and flooded with crap, yet admins dont clean/split them or call to order. Thats what i call bad moderation.

yeah, the spam box only has 691 threads.
moderators aren't omnipresent - we try to be active in the community and read manage to read many of the posts/threads, but activity can escape our eye if unreported...
if you think a thread needs moderation and we haven't seen it, you can help out.

<< press this button and make a report, and the report will show up when we're glancing through threads... we'll know something might need attention and it will make our jobs much easier.

Also, making moderators untouchable as someone has been suggesting, making them invisible untrackable, or not sure what else has been suggested, is wrong, bc then this will really lead to power abuse and the inability of the users know what happened.

There's enough power balance within the moderator staff so no one person has absolute authority, and we have moderator logs... if you feel something was unfair/unjust, send a private message detailing the issue to the whole Forum Moderator group, and it will be handled.

aegis wrote:There's enough power balance within the moderator staff so no one person has absolute authority, and we have moderator logs... if you feel something was unfair/unjust, send a private message detailing the issue to the whole Forum Moderator group, and it will be handled.

Been there done that, even made a thread, det still had his way even though it was obvious he overreacted in rage.

As for clan mafias, LCC clan is and always was a mod clan. Even now they have the nerve to nominate more of their members (jK and google) for moderator positions. Did I mention current spring server owner is an LCC (he changed tag only recently).

Better start sucking up to them or get the boot.
Can't fight the system.
Personally I'm gonna be applying to LCC.
Hope they accept me,wish me luck.

I suppose I should make the supported nomination announcements. I'm just so busy with all my offline responsibilities.