Spring RTS Engine

hmmm i dont really know how the OTA flame tanks were... but if you are making it nearly equel to a bulldog, doesnt the golly need altering to?

I don't really feel a need for a medium tank, something fast would be great though like a panther with different weapons and armor.

i dont think something fast like a panther would fit in with COREs style

Pxtl wrote:Dude, have you played the game? Here's a tip: put the comm at the front of a base, like he's getting ready to build an LLT or a Radar. Now, take a peewee or an AK and run by the comm, like you're doing a starting raid.

The comm will take longer to raise his laser arm then the peewee takes to cross his radius. The comm will get off maybe one shot.

I just took 5 minutes and ran some tests, and you're totally full of it. The results:

1) AK running by at extreme edge of Comm laser range. Comm gets in 2-3 shots, almost kills AK.

2) PeeWee running by at extreme edge of Comm laser range. Comm gets in 2-3 shots, leaves PeeWee at about 25% health, maybe a bit less.

3) AK (at full health) running by at about 150 units closest approach. Gets killed before it can get halfway across the circle. A Comm could conceivably kill 2-3 AKs at this distance before they're out of range.

4) PeeWee (at full health) running by at about the same distance. Gets killed just after the halfway point. A Comm could conceivably kill 2 PeeWees at this distance before they're out of range.

5) AK running by right next to Comm. Didn't mean to test this one. Dies after firing one shot at the Comm.

The Comm probably does aim slower when switching from building, but that's less of an issue. And then there's the tree bug. But again: radar. Be prepared.

Conclusion: Comm aiming speed is fine.

Can we drop the damn topic now?

Day wrote:i dont think something fast like a panther would fit in with COREs style

True, I'm just trying to think of something usefull..hhmm some sort of scouting tank with a bit of armor sounds really good to me though.

edit: actually maybe some sort of decoy vehicle, though this has nothing to do with the reaper, I just think decoys are awesome

For variety's sake it'd be nice to see it remain an anti swarm unit, maybe if it fired Riot-Cannon style blasts? (Just a random idea).

The only problem with that is if course it discourages players from mixing in L1 units.

Day wrote:hmmm i dont really know how the OTA flame tanks were... but if you are making it nearly equel to a bulldog, doesnt the golly need altering to?

make the reaper on par with the bulldog, make the gol slower but even more powerfull

Caydr, just don't listen to anyone except people with actual bug reports.

AA is nearly perfect the way it is. There'll always be people who want one thing or another changed because it doesn't fit their playing style, but wtf, such is life.

Personally, I regard the Comm-issue als solved. All the unfair strats people keep nagging about incessantly are only possible because they don't play well, and I myself am no exception to that. If I get rushed by a single buggy early on or hammered by 30 Brawlers at some point in the game it's my own bloody fault. The game is highly contingent, that's what makes it so interesting. There are dozens of possible, legitimate strategies, and the art of the game is being flexible enough to deal with any of them.

I think Caydr has practically reached the point where AA is no longer easily exploitable through one lame tactic. There are simply very very many contingencies, and hey, surprise, that's the whole point of a mod with nearly 400 different units in it. It works well the way it is, just adopt to it. Just because the developer is so easy to reach doesn't mean that he should change all the little things you don't approve of.

And FFS, has anyone ever actually thanked Caydr for all his work?

yes we did

Good :D

Deathblane wrote:For variety's sake it'd be nice to see it remain an anti swarm unit, maybe if it fired Riot-Cannon style blasts? (Just a random idea).

The only problem with that is if course it discourages players from mixing in L1 units.

Maybe another kind of weapon for a close-defence unit, to help the fragile L1 units protect Goliaths and artillery from things like Spiders, etc?

Egarwaen wrote:

Deathblane wrote:For variety's sake it'd be nice to see it remain an anti swarm unit, maybe if it fired Riot-Cannon style blasts? (Just a random idea).

The only problem with that is if course it discourages players from mixing in L1 units.

Maybe another kind of weapon for a close-defence unit, to help the fragile L1 units protect Goliaths and artillery from things like Spiders, etc?

you could make it a medium tank with a riot cannon and a light AA missile, sort of like the panther...would be good for earlier fights to support the gollies etc before you can afford (or have need to) to go to dedicated flak tanks

For those of you possible wondering "what? which flame tank?", he is refering to the Reaper. In OTA Bulldogs and Reapers were equivelant tanks. Currently in AA the Reaper is its own role, with the Bulldog and Goliath being more alike. However, it seems the Reapers flame thrower isn't quite up to the place it should be (I'm guessing this just might have something to do with Spring's friendly fire issues, and firing through trees and wreckage issues).

Caydr: Would you be bringing the Reaper up to where the Bulldog is now (close to Goliath) then pumping the Goliath up into its own class? That would probably place the Goliath effectively at lvl3. Or would you lower the Bulldog, maybe still beef up the Reaper some, leaving them both in a main lvl2 battle tank role (which iirc, Arm has been lacking somewhat, going to specialists like Mumbos and Tritons for it)?

just dont nerf my goliaths

make the reaper on par with the bulldog, make the gol slower but even more powerfull

Maybe make the gol slower, slower turning rate of cannon and slightly more powerful? make it more of a assault tank (vs defenses, slow units, coms) than a multipurpose pwn tank as it is (pwns swarms defenses etc, generally very useful)

ATM it's this:

Cloaking Cost: 600
Moving Cloaking Cost: 1200

I think changing to this:

Cloaking Cost: 100
Moving Cloaking Cost: 400

Hmm i love the idea of decreasing the Stationary cloaking costs, would buff the com significantly enough IMO without reverting HP (XP is fine now that no overkill damage is given) or speed

the current commlaser kills peewees and AKs very fast.. why buff it

Agreed, the com can deal with AKs (although it has small problems with PW, If completely surrounded, but IMO thats fair enough lol!)

Sure, a mob of PeeWees can rush by him, but he was never, should not be, and is not bloody Gandalf the Gray.

ROFL :D agreed!

AND DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD PXTL HAS SAID IN ANY POSTS. Al experienced people i have spoken to this about (including clanners from XHC and WarC) agree he is a idiot noob.

Reapers, Same speed as Bulldog IMO because otherwise its not going to be much good
(IF you intend on slowing the gol ignore above! and just give it slightly slower considerably more expensive with more HP and a better weapon than the bull)
OR
Maybe make the reaper have a more poweful weapon and slightly less HP than a bulldog and make it cost a fair bit less (incentive to go Adv V, going adv kbot as CORE is pretty attractive as you get combat engineers and sumos, dominators and morties, which can provide a varied well balanced army by themselves. obviously the adv con for CORE adv v is one reason to go adv v as CORE (but IMO slightly more incentive is needed as Vehicles arent as specialist as Kbots)

EDIT: Also subs need to go back to normal depth

Caydr wrote:The reason I suggest this is that flame weapons don't work so well in Spring. Maybe they'd work better if I spent some time on them, but really I think that it might be better to just revert.

Hm. Hold on, let's double back for a second. What, exactly, is wrong with flame weapons?

And I'm not sure what Archangel means by "main lvl2 battle tank". The definition of the term that I know matches the roles of the Goliath/Bulldog.

min3mat wrote:going adv kbot as CORE is pretty attractive as you get combat engineers and sumos, dominators and morties, which can provide a varied well balanced army by themselves.

And Cans. Effective little buggers, those. And for Arm, of course, you get Zeuses, Sharpshooters, Fatboys, Spiders, Zippers...

Well, Bulldogs/Goliaths were intended to be more of base assault units last I knew, perhaps I missed some change while my head has been buried in Btech (I don't check the changelogs quite as closely anymore).

Archangel of Death wrote:Well, Bulldogs/Goliaths were intended to be more of base assault units last I knew, perhaps I missed some change while my head has been buried in Btech (I don't check the changelogs quite as closely anymore).

They're also plenty good at wiping out other units. (Bulldog due to nice fire rate, Gollie because it points at them and they explode. ) I thought that was what a "main battle tank" was?

And you certainly have missed some changes. No more Mumbo, for one...

Gols need to be more expensive, slower, more powerfull, more HP, bigger in size and a slow turning turret

BUT still be buildable by level 2

/me points at the XTA golly