Spring RTS Engine

smoth wrote:Ok, I will add no explode sak.

Um, perhaps you misunderstood- i meant that the flamers will benefit from being level with whatever they are shooting at, and will benefit even more from being level if they are no-explode.

I didnt mean that no-explode will fix the problem with them shooting down at their targets (It'll probably make it worse).

*sighs* so I should gimp the map design rather then address the issue? no.

The flamer is a glorified machinegun with a shitty effects system plain and simple. It is an unreliable weapon and can be replaced with a machine gun and CEG. I added the no explode because I FEEL that it would make the flamer even more of an aoe weapon. The flamer weapons in the other mods are short ranged high damage machine guns using a hard coded effect. IMO OBSOLETE!

To then make the map gimped because the weapon is gimped? what and make mapping for tower defense more difficult? FUCK NO! If the weapon is the issue why should mappers have to deal with it? Sounds like something the persons developing the project should worry about... the developers being us. Now, have you seen it in action? no.

What is the problem with the flamethrower currently? I hate the way it works as aoe. because it doesn't! it is not worth bothering with because I can replace it's only boon with a better CEG and yes it is better. No there will be no video or test file for anyone to see. It is better, stop harping me about it.

What some of you people fail to grasp is what the flame thrower looks like in motion. That is fine, we are not releasing any videos or playable version anytime soon. Those who have seen it in action are all happy with it. Not to seem like I have entirely brush aside your concerns about it. If you ask gnome or mael I have been on about it for days. The effect stays, I may tweak it but it is staying as is!

Something that is most irritating is the feedback and comment people post. Some have been answered several times in the thread like "make towers upgradeable." Look I know some of you are trying to help but I am pretty sure it is safe to presume that we are smart enough to see if a weapon is or is not hitting! Or even some of the more basic stuff. bah, maybe I shouldn't post for these two days either.. I think I won't.

<ignorant drivel deleted>

Argh wrote:

flamer weapons in the other mods are short ranged high damage machine guns using a hard coded effect.

Er, no offense meant Smoth, but no, they're not. Remember that patch I made? Flamers are unique weapon types, that actually expand, collision-sphere-wise, over time, and respect colormap, like this one, from NanoBlobs (non-relevant TDF lines have been removed, to keep this a bit shorter in length):

Code: Select all

///////////////////////WEAPON DEFINITION STUFF
	rendertype=5;
	lineofsight=1;
	turret=1;

////////////////GAME BALANCE
	groundbounce=1;
	sizegrowth=0.75;

////////////////GRAPHICS
	ColorMap=0.0 0.7 1.0 0.01   1.0 1.0 0.3 0.01   1.0 0.5 0.15 0.01   1.0 1.0 1.0 0.1  0.1 0.04 0.04 0.3  0.025 0.01 0.01  0 0 0 0.01;
	texture1=flame;
	FlameGfxTime=1.15;
	size=1;
	explosiongenerator=custom:FLAMETHROWER_FX;

////////////////RESERVED STUFF
 	CollisionSize=1.25;//NOTE- AFFECTED BY SIZEGROWTH TAG

At any rate, I would suggest using groundbounce, and just limit the range to 1.25 past the center of the canyon (that looks like, what, about 350?), so that it's not the same effect as a machinegun gameplay-wise, and make use of the expansion so that they're actually more efficient hitting targets near the end of their ranges. Just my $0.02, of course.

It's superfluous because while a real flame thrower may be more efficient at simply hitting it's target at long range, alot less actual flame will strike the target, so damage would be significantly reduced, effectively resulting in the flame thrower being most effective significantly within it's outer range, not "most effective at far range". Basically, the expanding hit sphere isn't the right way to simulate a flame thrower any more than the solution smoth is now using, which is basically making it a simplified inaccurately machine gun with fancy effects.

Realistically, flame throwers are volumetric weapons. Hitspheres aren't going to reproduce them accurately unless you do ALOT more than just make them expand. They need to bounce off objects and ground.

[edit]Don't worry about gameplay for mods you haven't acctually played

IRL flamethrowers are used for their effect on impact, not their flight behaviour. In TD flamethrowers could e.g. heat the creeps up and if heated enough they cause a big explosion when killed or something like that.

Ok look kids, I have played this mod and it's very very good.

I can't believe there is so much discussion about the flamethrowers... SHUT UP for the love of god. The effect is really really cool in motion and it works great, so seriously, stop harping on something you've never seen.

Forboding Angel wrote:stop harping on something you've never seen.

Sound advice if I've ever read any.

isnt the point of the thread to discuss what we have seen? otherwise why put up the pictures at all? if you dont want people to make comments then dont put it in the forum till its done

Yay, we've already chased away one modder tirelessly working to create one of the coolest free games out there (Expand and Exterminate) with our constant bitching and nitpicking, let's see if we can go for a second!

Forum Rules

Rule 19)When one is rabid in anticipation of a mod and not sure what to do, complain about some insignificant aspect of it, untill the modder gives up and gives the mod away for another peson to pick up. If this fails, insist its rubbish but play it secretly when released.

Well there is a slight chance that EE am live again, but honestly without fang, the eesf can't do anything unless he gives us express permission.

Hopefully he will be back at some point...



So true AF, so true.

God this mod is fun kekeke!

Forboding Angel wrote:Well there is a slight chance that EE am live again, but honestly without fang, the eesf can't do anything unless he gives us express permission.

That's why free licenses are win: when the author disappears, you can still continue the work so the mod doesn't die.

Yah, OT, flame me. With a machine gun

Honestly, none of the EESF/FGJL has the skills & and the time alone to take on what Fang did. Smoth has the skills, and if you took Forb/Mello/Wasp/Deci (Work/Art, Focus, Art/Sound, Balance) you'd still get a pretty pale product.

The amazing thing is that Fang knew who to tap, and was open to suggestions, no matter what his personal attitude seemed to be. On the other hand, he was quite aware of the difference between good advice and bad advice - and he kept enough internal testers around to see all sides of an issue.

To finish this before I ramble, even if it were free for us to work on, I doubt we would release out of reverence and the difficulty of keeping up with his Leadership/Work.

neddiedrow wrote:Honestly, none of the EESF/FGJL has the skills & and the time alone to take on what Fang did. Smoth has the skills, and if you took Forb/Mello/Wasp/Deci (Work/Art, Focus, Art/Sound, Balance) you'd still get a pretty pale product

Smoth could do it alone, Argh or KDR+zwswsg would need a team like you describe, simply because they lack the obsessive amount of time that Smoth and Fang funnelled into their projects. But yes, it'd be pale. But either way it's pretty academic.

Smoth doesn't have the time. I said he had the skills.

I'm not alone in saying I wouldn't try to trade Gundam RTS for E&E, I think.

Argh has the skills as well, but he lacks the necessary ability to take input on filter and the time - I like Argh, but he needs a new method of dealing with player input. Fang was caustic when he needed to be, but otherwise, it got the job done.

KDR might have the time, I have no idea. I don't think Z has the interest.

smoth do not annoy you on the flame effect, leaves as you did it is exelent!!



PS : Sorry for my bad english

Just leave it be, show the non-believers.

I've had a lot of cases in mine where it looked horrible in the screenshot, but looked great in action.

Plz wait to see smoth's new flamethrower method in game before laying judgment. It will work, and it will feel like a flamethrower. Smoth knows what he's doing when he plays with spring scripts.

/me coughs, grumbles... and all around, just restrains himself....

neddie, I know you meant good, but that was poorly said. honestly it was.

dont bring me into this thread...

Im not completely gone, and given that No one but me has the latest version which is radically different than the last one I let out. I thought I might let someone take up the mantle, but honestly I dont think its neccessary. At some point I will be able to work on stuff again.

And now back to tower defence, smoth is doing a bang up job lets not steal the thunder from this by harping on EE (which is temporarily dead)..