Spring RTS Engine

In fairness, the only people who like these rules are noobs who don't expand. If you did have these rules and both players expanded it wouldn't work.

guys don't slam him for this. At most its an option in the lobby at the least the devs ignore this thread and press onwards. giving everyone options isn't a bad idea.

honestly i wouldn't mind playing either way. And yes this might create teh No-buildup-time and buildup-time camps but meh there are plenty of divisions in this community already.

I see this from two perspectives:

From a selfish point of view, I hate features like this and maps like speedmetal because they keep noobs noobs. No one will become a good player playing these games and I don't want to play against noobs or with noobs on my team, its just not fun. Thus, even if taking these things away/not impementing them would make some players leave/not join, I don't want to play with those people anyway and I'd hate for noobs to stick to playing speedmetal or BT because it's just easier, when they might be forced otherwise to learn to play well.

From a non-selfish perspective (that's still selfish it a way): The community is more than just hardcore players. The more people know about the game and enjoy playing it, the more players will come (some of whom will be come good). Some of these will decide to add content or develop the game but may never be great players. Those people are obviously at least as important as expert players.

Time is a resource. In a game like this, you're effectively playing with one less resource.

I think this is something that you can easily do by yourself, by agreeing not to attack with your opponent for a certain amoutn of time.

The fact of the matter is that the game design is simply entirely unsuited to peace, and implementing such a thing would not only be detrimental to gameplay, it would be very difficult to resolve the ambiguity and other weaknesses that arise from placing a system that simply doesn't fit.

Pxtl wrote:Really, metal fatigue is the perfect game for the Speedmetal fans. All giant-battlemechs, and everything took too long to destroy so rushing was impossible.

Umm no.. what does that have to do with speed metal?

I will not turn this into a metal fatigue discussion but I had no problem raping bases with stealth mechs and teleporters.

esteroth12 wrote:yeah, but many things were not allowed to be built, including:

resource structures
>lvl1 mech parts
many other buildings

Correct so all a person would have is a basic base. Pretty reasonable IMO.




As far as whether or not it is noobish in some of your opinions... geez you people over use noobish... "WTF, he is buttering his bread on the bottom! WHAT A NOOB."

Seriously, it is within reason that before battle starts a base should have been established for basic function. This sort of feature would be nice, You really cannot get too far into tech but you can at least get a basic base with 2-3 units up and going. I think it is a very good idea and it will give some of our begining players at least a little bit of a force and let them feel like they had a chance.

fastest nr20 no art

Ishach wrote:fastest nr20 no art

j5mello wrote:guys don't slam him for this. At most its an option in the lobby at the least the devs ignore this thread and press onwards. giving everyone options isn't a bad idea.

honestly i wouldn't mind playing either way. And yes this might create teh No-buildup-time and buildup-time camps but meh there are plenty of divisions in this community already.

It's hard enough to make betalord add acctually useful features. And no, it requires spring engine code as well as the lobby can't make the game suddenly change team information half way through, the game needs to do that itself. I think we'll probably keep this on the "If we have time after all these high priority features are done" list.

smoth wrote:

Ishach wrote:fastest nr20 no art

OTA games.

"Fastest" is the fastest game speed available.

"nr20" means no rush for 20 minutes.

"no art" means no artillery (BBs).

Essentially he's echoing my previous post in this thread.

I agree with Zsinj though, time is a resource. This would be like playing a game in which you had infinite energy for the first 20 minutes.

Useless...

The people who are going to agree to rules such as buildtimes will honor the rule without it being forced.

The people who are going to agree then dishonor the rule on purpose will not join games with forced buildtimes because their ability to grief others will be gone.

Ergo, all you have left are the people who would have agreed to honor the rule in the first place, resulting in a totally redundant feature.

Smart ass to point out the fallacy in the next reply wrote:lol but hay gnom dat meenz teh greifers cn stil grefi lol u noob

So? The person/people who play by the buildtime rules will learn and never play with that individual again, and they will only have lost 5-10 minutes because they suck too bad to have defended against the griefer at all (hence the buildtime in the first place).

Case closed, let's move on.

Proliferation of no rush games on starcraft pretty much ruined playing it for me, as someone earlier said you are taking an element from the game which in my opinion is the most important element.


Time and effiency of concentration are the foundations of playing RTS and without them you are just watching pretty formations of mechs firing at other pretty formations of mechs.


Even if you aren't a 'Harcore' player and just want to have big battles then I doubt you will even get that playing no rush games, you will find the game isnt balanced around 20mins of peace time and people will find a way to exploit that. So I highly doubt a no rush game will let you see swarms of peewees and Akbots fighting epic battles, you'll just get masses of gunships, or hurricanes, or nukes.


So unless you are playing against people who share the same goals for how the game should be played you wont get anywhere, even by enforcing peace time through the client. And to echo other posts, if other players share your goals then there is no reason to enforce peace time.

Peace times won't work well in mods where one side was balanced to focus on early attacks. While I lack any first hand experience (my ability is at about "speedmetal noob" level) I've read that this is present even in TA so a mod might need a "no peacetime" flag to prevent very unbalanced matches.

that is why I suggested a system like metal fatigue. You only have the usage of your starting resources and you can only build level one. It is again only to build a basic base.

I believe a metal fatigue like system would be far to difficult to code in as we now have a time before the game has actually started, and taht time is variable from 2-15 minutes.. and of course starting resources and determining tech tree limits within different mods etc...

I'm a little against this, cause I've played games without this and It always seems that right when its a perfect time for me to attack, its not wartime yet and then my attack flounders, unable to fire at anything untill the enemy have brought their main force to bear. Then the cease fire is over and my army is trashed. Damn it.

But, as J5 said, its always nice to have options.

smoth wrote:that is why I suggested a system like metal fatigue. You only have the usage of your starting resources and you can only build level one. It is again only to build a basic base.

People already play SimBase in Spring all the time. We don't need a coded feature for people to do this.

Hmm - I'd rather just have a "starting loadout" system or something like that. If I want to start out with a full base before the combat starts, I'd rather just be given the full base rather than waste 10 minutes of time on "sim base".

Just give each player each L1 fac, 2 of each con, 3 moho mines, a cloakable fusion reactor, and a pile of L1 defenses.

All in a line, so they can't fire and buil;d and they die easily.

SWAP
(Someone write a patch?)

Did anyone ever play the NES game Rampart? You would have about three minutes to build your castle, with complete ceasefire, then upon the ending of those three minutes you could only use siege weapons for a minute or two and then you would go back to the rebuilding phase and fix your base for a couple minutes and this cycle would continue until someone was eliminated. Some variation of this in TASPRING might be neat. Even a cease fire key that everyone would have to press in order to invoke might be cool.

An idea about prebuilt bases; while it might be very well impossible to do this when the game starts due to the varying terrain featured in our plethora of maps, what if we programmed an optional game start where you could only build "x" number of buildings and "x" numberof units within a certain defined boundry (start boxes?), the buildings would be built instantly (much in the fashion of .cheat) and you could either define to have a certain amount of metal and energy worth of units or an exact number of buildings or units. Which when every player is done building his base would hit ready again and the boundries would be lifted. (No resource gathering would take place during build time.)

The mods that would benefit from this would be those based around tabletop Warhammer, or those that wish to have similiar gameplay to that of Ground Control.

Felix the Cat wrote:People already play SimBase in Spring all the time. We don't need a coded feature for people to do this.

Play the game and try it out. At least you will see what I am talking about. I think it is entirely reasonable, one cannot build a whole base in it. It is just a starting force and having a starting force is a neat thing.

I swear people bitch... OMFG this is TOO MUCH LIKE TA... The you suggest an OPTION and people virtually crap their pants.