Spring RTS Engine

Something like this:

- Give the commander a blue under water laser which has a better range than the red air laser.
- Let the commander dgun underwater, this would create a line of extra lua generated explosions on the surface as well as the sea bed.
- Let torpedo launchers fire through ship yards etc in the style of an inverse banisher missile.
- Make torpedo launchers chain explode or nearly chain explode to reduce porcing considering the above.
- Increase DPS on floating HLT by 50% or more.
- Remove the floating hover platform (land one stays).
- Add all the hovercraft to t1 shipyard (aside from hover transport which goes t2).
- Make t1 ships tougher than hovercraft for cost and better at support, destroyer = better than the best hovercraft.
- Make t2 ships tougher too, increase range in some cases.
- Add t1 destroyers to Freaker, Consul build menu.
- Improve handling of all ships, including turn rate, constructor open and close time etc to make them feel less awful.
- Increase range of depthcharge launcher a bit.

The above would probably change with testing

@TheFat - I like all of those except the "hovers in the sea lab" one... it just seems ugly. I also don't think that chaining TLs is really necessary since they have so many weaknesses (hovers, destroyers) even if they get no collidefriendly/avoidfriendly.

Only real worry I have is comm-pushing with your superpowered-sub-comm... but the comm is so slow I'm not 100% concerned about it. Testing will tell.

Also, destroyer _should_ get killed by hovers for-cost - half their firepower is underwater. Only way to fix this cleanly without making sea omgwtfbbq OP is to let underwater weapons hit hovers. 'Vettes, on the other hand, do need to more convincingly trounce hovers.

TheFatController wrote:- Let torpedo launchers fire through ship yards etc in the style of an inverse banisher missile.

Hmm lol

Try playing sea sometime

JohannesH wrote:

TheFatController wrote:- Let torpedo launchers fire through ship yards etc in the style of an inverse banisher missile.

Hmm lol

Try playing sea sometime

I have, don't tend to make many torpedo launchers ¬_¬ turns out i'm wrong on this one I had assumed they couldn't fire thru allies at floating units, interesting!

interesting ideas dudes.

how about this one:

add scout hovers to vech lab
allow garpike / pincer to shoot underwater targets

and on the other other side of the coin:
add scout hovers to sea lab

that way, breaking in and out of the sea isn't such a logistical nightmare

anyways, back i go to read through it all again, plus ivorys thread which i haven't seen (oops)

@ TheFatController

Ditto. I'd always tried to rely on using shoreline-DCs for the resistence vs. subs and destroyers (high up enough the destroyers can't fire at them without exposing them to returned fire, plus no DC hits against the shoreline-DC)... but I think next game I'll just try to crowd my Econ and lab around a floating TL and see how that works.

I had no idea the things could shoot through crap.

TheFatController wrote:Something like this:

- Give the commander a blue under water laser which has a better range than the red air laser.
- Let the commander dgun underwater, this would create a line of extra lua generated explosions on the surface as well as the sea bed.
- Make torpedo launchers chain explode or nearly chain explode to reduce porcing considering the above.
- Increase DPS on floating HLT by 50% or more.
- Remove the floating hover platform (land one stays).
- Add all the hovercraft to t1 shipyard (aside from hover transport which goes t2).
- Make t1 ships tougher than hovercraft for cost and better at support, destroyer = better than the best hovercraft.
- Make t2 ships tougher too, increase range in some cases.
- Add t1 destroyers to Freaker, Consul build menu.
- Improve handling of all ships, including turn rate, constructor open and close time etc to make them feel less awful.
- Increase range of depthcharge launcher a bit.

The above would probably change with testing

these are a lot of huge changes...make sure 1v1 still works on SoW whatever u do or you will alienate ppl and they will qq and bitch

TheFatController wrote:- Give the commander a blue under water laser which has a better range than the red air laser.

Possible, though why not a torpedo...

- Let the commander dgun underwater, this would create a line of extra lua generated explosions on the surface as well as the sea bed.

Terrible, ships cost a massive amount and are not very maneuverable, d-gun is utterly deadly vs them, especially since the com is invisible to vettes.

- Let torpedo launchers fire through ship yards etc in the style of an inverse banisher missile.

...

- Make torpedo launchers chain explode or nearly chain explode to reduce porcing considering the above.

Clearly, not a problem! TL's have too much HP anyway, they'd have to be like mines.

- Increase DPS on floating HLT by 50% or more.

I'd suggest decreasing its weight so its more in the class of Hovers. FHLT was nerfed for a reason though.

- Add all the hovercraft to t1 shipyard (aside from hover transport which goes t2).

Where to start. Mixed hover + sub for countering HLT's and TL's respectively? If a player manages to get up both an amph fac/shipyard and a hover fac at the same time he is an utter menace. This strategy is usually how you end games.

- Make t1 ships tougher than hovercraft for cost and better at support, destroyer = better than the best hovercraft.

Destroyer has a third or so of its DPS from its depthcharge. Its going to have to be pretty damn tough to beat hovercraft. But yeah, sure, buff ships a bit (I'd rely on vette if you plan on conserving the current RPS dynamics).

- Make t2 ships tougher too, increase range in some cases.

No comment, dont know t2 sea (And i'd contest, nor does anyone else really).

- Add t1 destroyers to Freaker, Consul build menu.

Dont get what this is trying to fix, difficulty getting into the sea? You want vettes and subs to beat a sea player more than roys.

- Improve handling of all ships, including turn rate, constructor open and close time etc to make them feel less awful.

turninplace=0

- Increase range of depthcharge launcher a bit.

OK, but it would need like 1200 range to protect most shipyards from the shore (map design issue)

TheFatController wrote:I have, don't tend to make many torpedo launchers ¬_¬ turns out i'm wrong on this one I had assumed they couldn't fire thru allies at floating units, interesting!

You should seriously consult people who actually know how to play sea games. Most people are talking out of their arse regarding sea.

hunterw wrote:these are a lot of huge changes...make sure 1v1 still works on SoW whatever u do or you will alienate ppl and they will qq and bitch

Saktoth wrote:You should seriously consult people who actually know how to play sea games. Most people are talking out of their arse regarding sea.

I think you missed the words "hypothetical situation" in the subject when addressing what I posted, I thought about my change list for about 2 minutes before posting it wasn't a "this is what i'm going to do to BA!"

also you forgot the straw

Also I have some ideas regarding a hypothetical new model for sea balance if anyone is interested !!

I would allow ships to be built on land, then launched into the sea. By cons, not by a factory. That way you can build a small navy on the safety of your beach, and wet yourself only when you feel you have enough vessels.

I would make giant robot dinosaurs that glide through the water eating everything up and then shoot out the into the enemy base and rape everything.

I'd stop making suggestions and go actually become good on sea maps so i know how it plays and see if it even needs to be changed at all!

Because of many reasons sea should not be "fixed" and would be very hard to even get players to play it more. Also many experienced players like the sea gameplay very much and it adds a great depth to the game.

There are many more volatile *A mods, maybe try to fix the sea game in there instead of throwing stupid ideas for BA.

Of course there are dozens of small bugs in BA sea, but fixing those could lead to bad succestions to get implemented like the nerf of FHLT.

All it lost is some range.

Reducing range reduces damage and the time to shoot enemy units so the overall efficiency is greatly reduced. Reverting the change could just make enough porc possible for there to be good L2 sea battles also teching behind few FHLT's could bring the possibility to take back a sea without huge effort from rest of the team.

Edit: FHLT can't be even buffed too much because one sub or few rocket hovers can easily kill heavily repaired FHLT.


Hypothetically I would change:

-buff FHLT to let noobs play porc at sea, maybe lower dmg against hovers

-make com. run faster under water

-floating hover lab can be build by commander

-slightly nerf scout AA

-fix sub movement to less retarded

-decrease floating MM's cost and efficiency

-make UW fusions/MMs to chain explode easier

-increase transoprt's capacity

-add sonar jamming to the jammer

-move rez sub to L1

-slightly reduce engineers buildpower and make them smaller and looking like a floating nano

-bring sea mines to L1(maybe minelayer could be amph.)

Gota wrote:I'd stop making suggestions and go actually become good on sea maps so i know how it plays and see if it even needs to be changed at all!

nobody wants to become good on sea maps because it's so freaking boring as it is right now
theres not exactly much you need to learn about it either

how about someone competent puts together a test build of their sea balance ideas, seems there are enough people interested for it to get tried out

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:how about someone competent puts together a test build of their sea balance ideas, seems there are enough people interested for it to get tried out

I have,your welcome to try it with me.