Some Stuff That Happened Saturday Night

[Gota]

Although I'm hardly a saint I just want to say the moderation here is a disgrace.
Out right failure of the moderation staff.
Cursing is the #1 and most obvious offense that should be immediately removed.
It is the #1 reason for threads to go bad and people wasting time and getting angry...
Stop allowing people to curse here.
If you think argh is also saying something wrong but doing it more subtly remove his post as well and tell him what he did wrong.
Remove both posts and give warning to the posters.
Cursing should not be permitted period
Moderation on this forums is disgraceful.
Assign new moderators if the current ones are completely incapable or have no time to deal with issues on the forum.

I am active in several forums of different projects and games and i have never seen such a post like smoth's post allowed to exist.
Not that this is anything new to spring forums but it's still worth mentioning every time IMO.
Who does not agree that trolling and flaming should be always removed?it serves no purpose and only hurts motivation.

[SpikedHelmet]

Cursing is the #1 and most obvious offense that should be immediately removed.

Fuck off, are you 9 years old? Is your mommy going to get angry that you're hearing curse words? It's not like there are even any outrageous personal attacks using colourful metaphors, and certainly not actually offensive language like racist or demeaning terms -- just general "fuck off ya bitch". Christ.

It is the #1 reason for threads to go bad and people wasting time and getting angry...
Stop allowing people to curse here.

No, it isn't. The #reason for threads going bad is people (like you) subjecting threads to various forms of stupidity.

Remove both posts and give warning to the posters.

Why? Are you actually offended by what you're reading?

Then here's a clue: DON'T FUCKING READ IT.

Saying that moderation is "fail" here is an idiotic thing to say. What you really mean to say is, the moderation here should be the same as any other retarded liberal pussy forum. Every forum has its own moderation and posting rules and it is the decision of every forum owner/team to make up those rules. If you really don't like it, why don't you do us the pleasure of making "gota.com" or some other such nonsense and make your own damned rules and moderate your own damned forums?

I am active in several forums of different projects and games and i have never seen such a post like smoth's post allowed to exist.

Again, what the fuck does it matter? SO what if the Spring forums aren't like your favorite Hello Kitty Online Adventure forums? Grow a fucking pair.

Not that this is anything new to spring forums but it's still worth mentioning every time IMO.

So you mean, even though an issue and/or opinion and/or statement has been made countless times before, you still feel the need to fill the post box with the same bullshit over and over and over again until you get the desired result?

You mean you're a fucking troll?

Who does not agree that trolling and flaming should be always removed?it serves no purpose and only hurts motivation.

Aww, does seeing the horribly negative aspects of human interaction upset and depress you?

[Argh]

It's not like there are even any outrageous personal attacks using colourful metaphors, and certainly not actually offensive language like racist or demeaning terms -- just general "fuck off ya bitch". Christ.

But that's offensive. Moreover, let me quote you:

Argh, you're a condascending fuck.

If that isn't an "outrageous personal attack", I'm not sure what qualifies. Calling me a "condascending fuck" is both personal and ridiculous.

I'm not being "condascending" when I tell people that I've done something cool, and that it's available to anybody who wants to use it. I'm being factual.

If you gave away anything like the amount of work I give away, you'd understand that. Building new tech and providing it is a lot of work. I can and should tell people it exists, and it's not being "condascending" when I tell people it's better than existing tools. If they aren't smart enough to understand why, that's their problem. If they think it needs additional features before they're interested, that's fine, ask for a feature. But don't treat people who make things like crap, or pretty soon nobody is interested in making things. I did not have to make World Builder as user-friendly as I have, nor provide any documentation, nor tell people it exists. The GPL doesn't require any of that.

Recognize that gifts are gifts. Don't be a jerk, or take things for granted, or the next time I finish something neat, I won't tell a soul around here, or explain how to use it.

I think it's highly telling that people think it's all right to treat me this way, but when other people build you new tech to use, you act like it's an awesome gift.

In short, your behavior is exceptional. You treat me like dirt, and expect me to return for more. And then the Moderators don't do their jobs, which is to stop people from behaving like this, "because it's just Argh".

As I said at the beginning... we either have some rules, or we don't. Calling people "condascending fucks" is against the stated rules. That's incredibly demeaning and it's very demoralizing to have to read that kind of language on a regular basis. Maybe you like that kind of language, and your friends call you "condascending fucks" on a regular basis, Spiked, but my friends don't act like that, and I don't like being treated that way. Cursing has meaning- that's why it's cursing.

I don't really mind stuff like, "hey, that thing I did was shitty", because that's self-reflection. When it becomes, "hey that thing you did was shitty", you've crossed a line there- it's not a helpful comment, it's a strong negative reinforced by cursing. You wouldn't use that language with friends, you wouldn't use it at work... so why are you using it here and expecting me to put up with it?

Do you think Tobi or Kloot or jK would put up with that behavior? No, they wouldn't. They'd quit working on the project, if people treated them like this.

So why should I have to? Where is the special "abuse me" rule?

[Peet]

Do you think Tobi or Kloot or jK would put up with that behavior? No, they wouldn't. They'd quit working on the project, if people treated them like this.

So why should I have to? Where is the special "abuse me" rule?

The special "abuse me" rule is that neither Tobi, Kloot, nor jK behave in such a continually infuriating manner! And I am sure they would leave. Feel free to do so yourself.

[Argh]

<shrugs> My "infuriating manner" is irrelevant, Peet. People can still treat each other with respect whether or not they agree.

[zwzsg]

Building new tech and providing it is a lot of work.[...]Recognize that gifts are gifts.

That is the whole problem with you Argh: You act like you expect everybody to hail you and kiss your feet for you holy offering of code and insightful reflexions, while any knownledgeable guy that took a look at your crap saw it's all overinflated hype and scaringly erroneous assumptions.

Has it ever dawned you, that maybe, just maybe, Smoth already knew about your "World Builder", and deemed it not worthy of spending hours infecting Gundam with it or helping you debug and improve it? Of course not, how could your precious marvel not raise anything but praise and instant conversion? Anything else is unthinkable to you!

If you were less imbued with yourself, you'd also see that there are many other people having providing free code and assets for this community only to get a couple wow in a thread then get ignored forever after.

Then maybe Smoth overreacted and shouldn't have cursed, but I guess he just wanted to stress his point.

[Argh]

Has it ever dawned you, that maybe, just maybe, Smoth already knew about your "World Builder", and deemed it not worthy of spending hours infecting Gundam with it or helping you debug and improve it? Of course not, how could your precious marvel not raise anything but praise and instant conversion? Anything else is unthinkable to you!

Given that nobody has made a feature request, requested information, or asked about integration... yes, I'd have to say that my POV on this is correct.

It's a great tool, it's very easy to build level designs with, and if you need examples of it in use, you just have to download P.U.R.E.'s Demo. It includes documentation, and if that's inadequate, I have no idea, because nobody's asked me for improvements.

So... yeah, I'd have to vote that people are mainly ignorant, not that it sucks. The only part where it's noticably incomplete is buildpics, because it's always the last priority, and since it's well over 200 objects ATM, and growing every day, that's a place where I'm continually behind. So when you fire up the Editor, you'll have to deal with a lot of objects where you'll have to read the descriptions. Terrible, I know.



But let's look at the other part of what you said. Given that you give away practically nothing useful at all... what makes you qualified to have an opinion about how useful my work is?

I love how you throw up straw men like this... but if asked, you'd have pretty much nothing of your own that is generally useful to point us to, so that we can compare and contrast.

Making general-use projects is extremely challenging, and requires a huge amount of work. If my work is so bad... feel free to make some of your own sometime, instead of lame coder stunts. Or improve my code, since it's so terrible, if you actually can. I don't think you could do it, frankly, but you're welcome to try. That's an Open Source response to an Open Source problem.

[Peet]

<shrugs> My "infuriating manner" is irrelevant, Peet.

That is like saying the speed of a car is irrelevant when discussing a crash....which is, I think, pretty analogous to this situation.

[Argh]

You're still arguing for exceptions, merely because you don't happen to like me. Calling it a "car crash" is just obfuscation. I don't have to like Gota to be polite to him. I don't have to like you to not curse at you. And I don't have to be liked to expect the same standard from other people here.

[SpikedHelmet]

I'm not being "condascending" when I tell people that I've done something cool, and that it's available to anybody who wants to use it.
I'm being factual.

That right there was one of the most fucking arrogant things I've ever seen you said.

In JK and Tobi et al's case, they don't run up and down the fucking forums talking about their glorious but completely factual accomplishments like they were the second coming of Christ, regardless of how many people have asked them to shut the fuck up. Hell I have no idea what jK's ever done and I only found out about what Tobi can do because he's been personally doing shit for S44. Otherwise I'd have no fucking clue who he even was because he doesn spend his time flogging himself over how awesome he is and trying to get everyone else to "realize it" in a factual manner.

I love how you throw up straw men like this... but if asked, you'd have pretty much nothing of your own that is generally useful to point us to, so that we can compare and contrast.

See that? That is a perfect example of your ass hattery right there, staring you blankly and unlovingly in the face. Do you think you're really that great that anything you do can easily be justified by you saying "Oh yeah, what have YOU done?"

That sir is a fucking strawman.

My "infuriating manner" is irrelevant, Peet.

So the way in which Smoth, me and others anger and offend you is completely pertinent, but the way in which you offend and infuriate others is irrelevant?

Yeah, no, sorry. You piss people off. Whether you want to believe it, or want to impress some Jesus-like quality of self-sacrifice for the good of humankind despite their brutal and unwarrented villification of you onto yourself, the fact remains that you're the most infuriating person in this entire community. Everything you've gotten, all of the "abuse" you've received is in direct correlation to your own deranged antics.

As for World Builder, what most people do around here is fucking make something and make a thread about it. They don't gay pride around the place screaming "Look what I've done! Look what I've done! I'm so great! None of you could do it!"

So... yeah, I'd have to vote that people are mainly ignorant, not that it sucks.

Yes, everyone in the world is wrong and you are the sole shining beacon of logic and wisdom in the universe. It must be really lonely for you.

But here's the basic facts. 1) WB is a nice tool but it doesn't do what a lot of people want. 2) People don't want to give you feedback or make feature requests or generally talk to you at all if it isn't absolutely necessary or in a highly belligerent manner because you're a fucking asshat. 3) Therefore, if you made a machine that could create an embodiment of all the knowledge of the entire universe, generally people still wouldn't give a fuck, because you're an asshat. 4) In summation, stop being a fucking asshat, stop spoon-feeding us reasons to despise your very existence, and you might actually find your attempts to communicate go a little smoother.

And I don't have to be liked to expect the same standard from other people here.

1) You're not polite. What? 2) You technically don't have to do anything, but you'd be smart to expect to have to act like a decent human being for people to treat you in kind.

[Peet]

You're still arguing for exceptions, merely because you don't happen to like me.

On the contrary, I think smoth was very much past the line, quite possibly worthy of a ban at this point. I am saying it is ridiculous for you to be crying for moderators when your behaviour is every bit as inflammatory.

[zwzsg]

Given that nobody has made a feature request, requested information, or asked about integration... yes, I'd have to say that my POV on this is correct.


But let's look at the other part of what you said. Given that you give away practically nothing useful at all... what makes you qualified to have an opinion about how useful my work is?

You just proved twice my point about how most of what modders and coders think is awesome and gives for free is ignored.

In the eye of the creator, his creation is always awesome. Sometimes it really is, sometimes it isn't, but either way, the rest of the crowd nearly always ignore it (unless it's included in BA).

Just realize you aren't that special.

[Gota]

flame,troll

Heh...
I don't get hurt by these things but they are completely counter productive.
Do you think its productive to demotivate developers and their work/project?
What is the point of being rude over the internet?all you'll end up seeing is "fuck you","no","fuck you" for several pages than lock.
Is this not the reason you asked me to not post in your thread?is this any different?I'm sure you agree thisis almost the same.
Wouldn't it be better to instead talk about how to improve each others ideas and work?
Surely a friendlier environment will have better chances to produce something of high quality and attaract more people and developers.

If you come to troll flame and accuse or distract you should be stopped.
I do not blame Smoth or Argh.Any negative behaviour on these forums is a result of bad moderation.
If people are banned/warned/have their posts deleted when they post something inappropriate they will not repeat it again.

I am sure you agree that the spring forum should not be the place where people vent.

[SpikedHelmet]

whine, cry

Your ridiculous notion of the good of positive interaction is sickening. You've obviously not met the internet.

Just because you fill your posts with "positiveness" doesn't make you any less of a troll.

[Gota]

whine, cry

Your ridiculous notion of the good of positive interaction is sickening. You've obviously not met the internet.

Just because you fill your posts with "positiveness" doesn't make you any less of a troll.

I agree,you can troll without cursing and that should also be moderated out.
any post that is trollish,flaming or derailing the thread should be removed.
If someone is so angry at someone else that he feels he needs to write in CAPITAL LETTERS and use obscenities than it is not only his misbehavior but also the moderation's fault for not stopping this before it could get to that.
Obviously nobody expects abusive posts to always be dealt with right away but they should be dealt with as soon as one of the moderators notices them.
Perhaps there are not enough moderators to effectively keep the forum constructive and productive?

[Regret]

I agree,you can troll without cursing and that should also be moderated out.
any post that is trollish,flaming or derailing the thread should be removed.
If someone is so angry at someone else that he feels he needs to write in CAPITAL LETTERS and use obscenities than it is not only his misbehavior but also the moderation's fault for not stopping this before it could get to that.
Obviously nobody expects abusive posts to always be dealt with right away but they should be dealt with as soon as one of the moderators notices them.
Perhaps there are not enough moderators to effectively keep the forum constructive and productive?

Your whining is not constructive.

[smoth]

I react with rage on ocassion and you lot act as though it is common place.

World builder was a concept I proposed back in like 07 in the old mappers forum. Argh and I talked he made a version that I found unsuitable for my use, I asked him to change some things he said no I said fine and realized I needed to make my own idea happen. I then created that map options thing for gundam and decided to work on a feature placer since worlbuilder wasn't what I wanted.

Now I KNEW argh would start some bullshit because I didn't want to use worldbuilder so I announced that I was making a feature placer in the mapper forum so he could go ahead and act like a douche in that thread and NOT shit up the gundam thread with him pushing his product.

Now he did say something, and I said something back. The discussion should have ended there. Instead he decides to derail my thread. I did not feel the need to play around and pretend argh has any intent on being nice.

See argh works like this, he will try and skirt around being only remotely civil while driving others to rage, then play victim when the finally bite him. So this little act of oh ban smoth for cursing at me, yeah it is really cute.

See, I am on vacation, trying to relax and have a good time, I came on to see if anyone needed support for gundam and of course argh is still at it. Yes, spiked, I should be above reacting to him in the way I did, in fairness I am human and not perfect I know I need to work on snapping at people.

[smoth]

I also wanted to say that calling me stupid for not accepting your adaptation of my concept is exceptionally rude. You may not use profanity or caps but your meaning is not lost.

Calling for my ban and/or censure is highly inappropriate and if my behavior was SO BAD you should have contacted the moderation staff via the report button.

I do not like the reactionary posture here, essentially argh can write walls of derisive text yet I am the bad guy because I wrote a few sentences in reaction to his non-stop battery of condescension? Like I said, I am on vacation, I had HOPED argh was a better man than he is. See, my personal failings are that I reacting with rage sometimes. Argh's is that he some how sees him self as above everyone.

ARGH, for the last time, worldbuilder did not meet what I wanted, it is not what I needed I wrote(with some help) a tool that does what I wanted and will continue to develop it. You could easily take whatever good stuff I have and steal it.

I don't care, I am tired of you.
I am tired of you perpetually villifying me in an attempt to rid yourself of someone you are in an imaginary competition with.
I am tired of you pushing people around.
I am tired of losing whole days to correcting you, which is why I stopped.
I am tired of your constant contempt for everyone here.

You are toxic.

[Gota]

I got no probs with swear words per se unless they are used in a negative way to purposefully upset someone as opposed to say,jokingly.

[AF]

Did I mention I myself tried to build something like worldbuilder a month or so before argh started his? You can see me going around colelcting features and requesting them from people on smoths forums.