Spring RTS Engine

Gota wrote:Boost is unnecessary all together..Is someone actually bothered with the fact u need to get your base going in the beginning?Making everything boost up and seed up just gives a cheap feeling to it..
Instead of this you can just increase storage of m an e and you wont need any boosting.
If you have more starting m and e there are more chances ull go Lab much quicker thus making the battle start much sooner on average.

you dont understand do you?

the reason boost was implemented was to speed up the start of the game i didnt feel it was entirely neccesary but its nice to get the game started quickly.

The problem is not E and M but build time and instead of borking all the build time values just to suit the first minute of the game boost was made to allow you to start playing from the get go and have a factory quickly if you so wish.

No,you don't understand.

Making more m and e on start will on Average make the fighting start much earlier without having all sorts of superficial gadgets.

Otherside wrote:boost rushing is cheese/lame no skill.

The fact you eliminate BT and can rush defenses instantly means you can rush an llt/heatray/hlt right next to your enemy before the enenmy can react as he has normal BT and a factory + no proper offense to counter offensive static usage as statics beat mobile units easily for cost and artillery will be useless as he will be at point blank range.

CA needs boost limit (boost only working inside start area ) before people start laming on a regular basis.

Personally, I'd just put a timelimit on the boost. Just give the player a nice countdown indicator on how much longer he can boost. That way, an enemy _can_ do the cheese-rush... but he probably wont' have enough time to use up all his boost so he might waste a bit of it.

Gota wrote:No,you don't understand.

Making more m and e on start will on Average make the fighting start much earlier without having all sorts of superficial gadgets.

if you dont have the BT to utilise the M and the E its wasted.

I cant believe you cant even get the BasiCs of the concept

Well if it is so hard to wait until a lab is completed than...I dont know..

Then someone should exploit boost! People keep on talking about this but I haven't ever seen it happen. I think boost rush falls within the reasonable realms of a start strat. Raiders can be beaten many times over for cost if a base is defended. If you boost drop it has taken 2 comms of boost to kill 1 player, and that is only a player who has made no defence.

If boost is a problem I don't like the sound of adding more rules to how it can be used. It's already enough of a special rule as is so I think we'd just slow down the boost rate.

Boost rocks. I love boost. Everyone I know loves boost. It makes initial build order both fast and critical.

Google_Frog wrote:Then someone should exploit boost! People keep on talking about this but I haven't ever seen it happen. I think boost rush falls within the reasonable realms of a start strat. Raiders can be beaten many times over for cost if a base is defended. If you boost drop it has taken 2 comms of boost to kill 1 player, and that is only a player who has made no defence.

If boost is a problem I don't like the sound of adding more rules to how it can be used. It's already enough of a special rule as is so I think we'd just slow down the boost rate.

the reason people dont exploit boost rush is because it makes people leave games and makes CA look awful.

Ive seen new people quit CA after getting boost rushed cheaply.

Someone should exploit = not always the best solution to fixing something thats lame/OP especially with a mod trying to establish a playerbase if you keep on saying Let people exploit stuff you will put off new people and kill the playerbase.

With common sense something that is OP/Lame can be identified without griefing people and harming the playerbase.

Exploit to get it changed is a flawed design model when it comes to balance/gameplay with a small community

Well then someone exploit it against me.

Google_Frog wrote:Well then someone exploit it against me.

its in team games were sum1 can trans drop u.

also you have to measure the effect it has a gameplay

does boost rushing defenses into someone add good gameplay answer = NO

if it add something meaningful or fun without being entirely lame then it wouldnt be a problem but at current its just lame. And adds nothing good to gameplay whilst harming the playerbase.

Limit boost range?

Google_Frog wrote:If you boost drop it has taken 2 comms of boost to kill 1 player, and that is only a player who has made no defence.

That doesn't do much to comfort that one player, and even a player who makes 1 LLT can't do much to stop a comm that's plopping down 3 LLTs in 2 seconds.

Remove boost,add scouts(or other units) to commander's buildlist.
This way you can be starting the action as soon as game starts and while your scouting/raiding you can build the lab and starting mexes..

CarRepairer wrote:

Google_Frog wrote:If you boost drop it has taken 2 comms of boost to kill 1 player, and that is only a player who has made no defence.

That doesn't do much to comfort that one player, and even a player who makes 1 LLT can't do much to stop a comm that's plopping down 3 LLTs in 2 seconds.

Not only that, but air-start is viable in CA. So the guy who did the transporting is still a threat. His boost is not "wasted". This is particularly relevant in Communism mode, where the boostrush comm also has the communal resources to start building a full base where he landed, if he survives.

with a radartower boosted rushs are easily detected and then you just counterboost. (if you didnt start with a fusion )

lol thats some BS.

you buy a radar tower and have built up your fac mex's etc if the guy is flying at u on an atlas u dont have time to prep even if hes walking at you , you cant out produce aggresive static usage with 0 bt in the early game

The real problem is that it is a guessing game...
The issue is build speed versus walking speed.
Iv thought about this idea which seems pretty kewl but i decided it won't fit SA so maybe you guys can use it.

It goes like this:
When you have a small amount of units the game is faster than normal but as the average number of units per player increases the game slows down.
The more units per player on average the slower the game slows down so you wont reach very low gamespeeds.

If this is implemented,the game will move faster at start when you dont have much to do and will slowly slow down as players have more units and need more time to manage and micor units and special abilities.

Gota wrote:The real problem is that it is a guessing game...
The issue is build speed versus walking speed.
Iv thought about this idea which seems pretty kewl but i decided it won't fit SA so maybe you guys can use it.

It goes like this:
When you have a small amount of units the game is faster than normal but as the average number of units per player increases the game slows down.
The more units per player on average the slower the game slows down so you wont reach very low gamespeeds.

If this is implemented,the game will move faster at start when you dont have much to do and will slowly slow down as players have more units and need more time to manage and micor units and special abilities.

That is actually a really sexy idea. The game speed scales to the size.

That is somewhat the idea behind a lot of google's widgets, like autoskirm. Naturally a widget will not be as good as human micro, but if there is a lot to manage it helps.

Otherside wrote:boost rushing is cheese/lame no skill.

The fact you eliminate BT and can rush defenses instantly means you can rush an llt/heatray/hlt right next to your enemy before the enenmy can react as he has normal BT and a factory + no proper offense to counter offensive static usage as statics beat mobile units easily for cost and artillery will be useless as he will be at point blank range.

CA needs boost limit (boost only working inside start area ) before people start laming on a regular basis.

Otherside, I don't think you understand how much you risk pulling something like that off. Here are the scenarios

1) You drop with an atlas from a factory you built. You can save about half your boost at the expense of time if you let a nano do the building for you. Your opponent has plenty of time to expand. Making any defenses sets you back more so you are pretty open to raiding. Not usually worth the drop.

2) You let an ally build an atlas for you. You have full boost, but your team is down a factory. So killing an enemy fac will only break you even. And he probably got some cons out before the fac died. And you are alone in enemy territory. I would not consider this worthwhile either.

3) You walk. Com is slow as hell. Even on a tiny map like darkside this is barely viable.

THE REAL PROBLEMS:
1) Playing on maps with not enough resources to support a factory for every player. Thats what leads to these tactics. Actually I don't consider it a problem unless one team wastes boost on the extra facs and the other team doesn't. But in that case, you might as well say that playing badly is the real problem.

2) Overshoot (especially core hlt). Most successful comdrops I've pulled or watched involved an hlt that outranged arty. Without the overshoot, a commdrop would fail heavily to arty and end result in feeding the opponent metal.

Also, build time is not eliminated, just equivalently halved since bp is doubled. Playing pw I had to fight against someone pushing with insta-build turrets and trust me, there is a huge difference.

The team is not "down a factory" - starting with gunships is quite viable on large maps with lots of cliffs. Really, the teammate-atlas-boost-cheese is the only approach I've ever seen. And the problem wasn't just that he took out a player, but that he was a costly distraction to fight against while trying to play the front lines - yes, in the end the boost-rush player is eliminated, but in the mean time the enemy gets a good run of the map.

the boost rush player that got dropped will easilly kill a player he will then distract all the ally team because hes in there terrirtory and if he boosts wisely can take out another player with ease on congested maps.

the distraction alone is worth it especially in 4v4+ and it takes a while to kill a player with boosted statics very early in the game without focusing to much of your attention and resources towards it to not loose the front line and gimp your expand.

the rewards boost rushing vary depending on map.