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Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 12:01
by hoijui
i think that everyone can learn to handel that, with enough training (its like learning to play guitar or something). of course, if you need 3 hands (two mice & keyboard) thats a problem you can not solve by learning. but there are other things then mice you could use as pointing device, for example:
- sensors on the skin, sensing nerve impulses (i have just seen this in a catalogue for a few bucks (ok, it is the first product, may not be good, but that may change soon))
- eye movement tracking
so in theory, you could use mouse and keyboard with your hands, an eye movement sensor plus possibly multiple mouse pointers steared by skin attached sensors.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 13:29
by Wisse
You play guitar with two hands just like you play spring with two hands (one on keyboard one on mouse). Both hands are in sync trying to achieve only one goal.
Managing two completely independent groups of units at the same time is different story altogether. I don't think human is actually capable of doing two unsynced things simultaneously so all ur left with is faster switching between group one and group two which will need shitloads of training and even than I can't see anyone outperforming skilled player with normal setup.
Take
this guy for example. I and many others for that mater find him amazing, though he's only playing a song he practiced and is always the same every time he does it. But here in spring you're expected to adapt ur tactics and micro on the fly or else you'll just get raped hard.
Try
downloading Liero, set splitscreen, 2 players and play vs urself. Than come back and tell us how it went. Not good eh?
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 17:16
by Tribulexrenamed
I lolled.
I am still lolling...
Damn this would be awesome XDXDXDXDXDXD
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 19:26
by aegis
The human brain has the ability to perform multiple tasks simultaneously while keeping the goals of all tasks in mind. People who have trouble doing this have not had practice.
Personally, after the point when I can perform a task almost subconsciously, I can do it at the same time as another such task without faltering at either task.
For example, I can type while facing people and talking to them as long as neither point of focus requires me to branch to harder mental aerobics... like recalling detailed information about past events or doing complicated math problems
I conceptualized a two-hand multi-touch interface which would probably work for RTS games like Spring. It needs at least two recognized points per hand using the system, but could have advanced functionality with up to five points per hand.
A person can have a lot of control with two fingers on an X/Y plane.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 20:08
by AF
Its different when your talking about two mice because of the nature of the tasks, for the same reason people have problems putting their hands on their head and a hand on their tummy and drawing circles with them in opposing directions without making mistakes.
A multitouch system however does no suffer from the same kinds of issues and thus has a much wider scope which is nearer to the average mental maximum of 4-6 tasks, though I am not saying there aren't people who can do 8 or only do 2, it all depends on context!
btw aegis, how does your multitouch RTS system work?
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 20:26
by Pressure Line
AF wrote:btw aegis, how does your multitouch RTS system work?
kinda like this.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 20:49
by imbaczek
the installation looks like pain, though.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 27 Nov 2008, 23:05
by Pressure Line
imbaczek wrote:the installation looks like pain, though.
probably.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 00:40
by Wisse
Np if it makes me beat randy.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 02:08
by aegis
AF wrote:btw aegis, how does your multitouch RTS system work?
it's not necessarily just for RTS
and it's all conceptual, except I know where to get and how to make the hardware and write the software to handle it
I was thinking of ways to control Spring using only a multitouch display, and I came up with a few things
some of the interactions are obvious ones like apple does with the iPhone/iPod (pinch to zoom, etc)
when you touch with your pointer finger, buttons appear about where your other fingers are, allowing you to perform more actions than the simple motion-based ones
when you put two fingers together, touch the screen, then spread them out and move them, it makes a selection lasso
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 02:22
by Pressure Line
lightpen on a tabletpc style monitor embedded in my desk as a second monitor displaying the minimap = win
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 02:34
by aegis
it would be cool if someone made proper dual-monitor support for spring (supported by opengl 2.0 or any card with dual ramdacs)
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 09:44
by Masure
aegis wrote:it would be cool if someone made proper dual-monitor support for spring (supported by opengl 2.0 or any card with dual ramdacs)
Agreed. I have two monitors for ages and I can't play with both cause we need to use the "extended mode". The dual view (different res and refresh rate) support "à la supcom" would be a god gift.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 10:00
by Pressure Line
horizontal span 4tw!
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 10:28
by aegis
Pressure Line wrote:horizontal span 4tw!
except your monitors need to match resolution
and it's awkward to use horizontal span on a constant basis unless your monitors are made for it
and ati
and fail
and aids.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 28 Nov 2008, 13:15
by Sabutai
How to Make a Cheap Multitouch Pad - MTmini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQpr3W-YmcQ
Homemade 56 inch multitouch screen Diy FOR 1000$
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfomuLWSPxg
Instructions on how to build it:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Back-pr ... levision./
Software for all this:
http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/1825/
I've got more software somewhere :) Enjoy!
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 29 Nov 2008, 02:40
by Pressure Line
aegis wrote:Pressure Line wrote:horizontal span 4tw!
except your monitors need to match resolution
and it's awkward to use horizontal span on a constant basis unless your monitors are made for it
and ati
and fail
and aids.
2 identical monitors side by side
Nvidia
and lol
and lol
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 29 Nov 2008, 03:18
by aegis
I know.
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 29 Nov 2008, 08:19
by jK
And you really think this is worth to be in the players FAQ wiki???
Re: Can two mice == two cursors?
Posted: 30 Nov 2008, 00:21
by ScarySquirrel
Wisse wrote:I don't think human is actually capable of doing two unsynced things simultaneously so all ur left with is faster switching between group one and group two which will need shitloads of training and even than I can't see anyone outperforming skilled player with normal setup.
Try
downloading Liero, set splitscreen, 2 players and play vs urself. Than come back and tell us how it went. Not good eh?
:idea:
Playing with two different computers on two different accounts has not fazed me when I tried it, on one player mode at least.
ScarySquirrel wrote:6...According to studies in NLP the average human can hold 7 plus or minus 2 chunks of information in our conscious thinking at any one time. Even far more with "automotive" training, like when driving a car for example.
I beg you, just read the post.
I do not care if only a few people ever reply, as long as those people have actually considered it.
No one likes saying things twice.