Spring RTS Engine

neddiedrow wrote:Naval is always a losing move. Always.

BS from my experience.

I always start water on SSB V2 and can't actually think of a game where i've been on the losing team on that map. Sea allows you to get a huge number of extra mex from your land based opponents, giving a large advantage early in metal income, then you can tech them up later on and get a pretty decent econ just from mex alone. And ofc theres way way more space to base build in. Tidals and water based MM's work out cheaper for energy driven metal income, too.

And so far as porcing being a winning strat, I'd say it is a very effective way to win team games on certain maps, mainly the most commonly played, then again, I don't look at porcing as simply base camping with starting mex.

I'd define porcing more like choosing to invest the vast majority of economy into further developing economy from early to mid game, refusing to attack the enemy to a large extent, and building a very small number of units. That is to say that you CAN expand to take other mex/geo's etc while porcing, you just dont invest anything much in keeping hold of that expansion yourself (let your allies deal with the brunt of enemy forces while you sit protected behind them, for example) and take mex spots which are unlikely to come under attack, or those which are likely to out produce their investment before being killed.

Hovercraft are almost always a better move, especially if you anticipate resistance from the sea. Hovercraft and an Amphibious factory.

Meh, ships seem to work for me at the start. Hover guy always gets crippled pretty early because he cant take any mex (all sea based mex are claimed and he only starts with 3 or 4 on land).

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that if there is no resistance in the sea, Ships are the way to go, particularly for long-term coastal assault. However, if you are unable to make it to T2 before you encounter Hover or Ship or Sub resistance, you're sunk, pardon the pun.

My roommate and I have both observed you as a naval player, so I do have somewhere to start with in your play above the watery depths.

Naval player? I only ever play Naval on SSB V2 simply because I find it to be the best approach to getting an economy and expansion advantage early on that map. Only very rarely do i follow on from a ship start to tech 2 ships, usually I just revert to a seaplane lab or t2 kbot lab back on shore from which my general approach is usually to tech up mexes and make lots and lots of air and nukes.

vechs>10 amphib cons

t2 air

in all sea maps (tangerine, SSB V2, DeltaSiege ... ) naval supremacy give the victory 9/10 time ...

And porcing naval is more easy :D
moreover because naval are very good against air (cheap T1 AA boats ...)

DemO wrote:Meh, ships seem to work for me at the start. Hover guy always gets crippled pretty early because he cant take any mex (all sea based mex are claimed and he only starts with 3 or 4 on land).

He must phail at getting hovers then. You can also go through ships to get hovers if necessary (i.e. starting on one of the islands instead of the mainland), to allow for expansion in the sea, but this is a more vulnerable start for obvious reasons.

rofl neddie what are you talking about? Hovers are far better for coastal assaults. You can pwn a whole bunch of players if you get past one of the coasts.

I think he means coastal assault as in attacking the shoreline from range with ships (t2 ships, cruise missile ships etc).

Anyway I never understood all the fuss about hovers being too good against sea. Never been a problem for me.

DemO wrote:I think he means coastal assault as in attacking the shoreline from range with ships (t2 ships, cruise missile ships etc).

Anyway I never understood all the fuss about hovers being too good against sea. Never been a problem for me.

Yes - I didn't mean literally using boats (which may or may not work, depending on the mod) - I meant tha the water in SS is such a large area that it's hard to porc without claiming the whole thing - and there's enough resources in the ocean that porcing only within your contintent (letting the enemy control the water) is suicidal.

My point was that SS is not a porc map if you properly capitalize in the water (amphicoms should be into the ocean ASAP).

Long-term does not mean rush and rape, which is what hovers do, Matt.

Starting sea and then going hovers can easily beat going kbots then hovers because even though you get hovers up slightly later you can put pressure on the enemy a LOT earlier, and sometimes keep him from getting ground in the sea at all.

Actually, I generally go Kbots to Air and Hovers.

Hardcore porcers. The only players that are more annoying than com rushers. Hardcore porcers take the fun out of a long game. Com rushers take the fun out of a short game.

jellyman wrote:Hardcore porcers. The only players that are more annoying than com rushers. Hardcore porcers take the fun out of a long game. Com rushers take the fun out of a short game.

Hardcore porcers dont have "long games" :/

neddiedrow wrote:Long-term does not mean rush and rape, which is what hovers do, Matt.

tbh it's all you need most games. Demo I think a lot of players saw someone pwn with hovers so they try to imitate it, but they don't really get the strategy behind using hovers and what to build. I've only seen a few players really do it well. Same goes with playing sea well btw.

neddiedrow wrote:Com rushers take the fun out of a short game.

Translation: "I don't know how to counter a com rush"

NREF MMAEKRS!!!111

Srsly, a good porcher can actually rush a krog in 8 mins using mmakers , and doesnt even need to use Mexes >:(

the chatlog was one of the best i've seen

"stop building llts so i can win you man"

[12:20:21 PM] <KingRaptor> Unless you've beaten LCC or WarC or one of the other pro clans on SSB, don't talk to me about "way better players" than me.

I Lolled IRL

But on a serious note Why do ppl complain about the BA's MMKRS the XTA ones are also 60 E for 1 M and they aren't as explosive as BA's so even less risk....

And 60 E for 1 Metal is really expensive, someone should just calculate it and you will see that expanding really IS worth it!


Some random thoughts: Ships can build Hovers too right, and the Shipyard is cheaper then the kbotlab, and have cheaper E due to tidal and more efficient metalmakers... so i gues starting @ sea and teching to hovers is even faster! (this is not tested )

got really bored:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... Dpn5U-1tSw