Spring RTS Engine

KAI is closed source he could only be using linux to play it if he used WINE or a virtual machine

AF wrote:KAI is closed source he could only be using linux to play it if he used WINE or a virtual machine

mst have game speed on ultra slow...either that or he's using funny map that KAI can't do...very very hilly?

I think he was playing a "funny" mod.

Umm, no.
I was playing AA 2.11, and the game speed was 1.5

Vassago wrote:Umm, no.
I was playing AA 2.11, and the game speed was 1.5

which maps? do you get the same in every game you try?

does KAI still get the 'build a factory at the bottom of the map so the units can't get out' bug? If so, then it could be that....just try not to put the AI's in positions so near the bottom edge.

it doesn't do it very often though...

unpossible wrote:it doesn't do it very often though...

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned and fixed. On this note I'd also add that on the map I just made KAI does this reliably. If I start a FFA with 4 KAIs at LEAST one does this with at LEAST one factory every time without fail.

ok, no need to get irate . i was thinking in the context of Vassago's comments - i don't see the problem very often and i've watched a biatchload of games on loads of maps.
was there an obvious cause for the slowness Vassago?

Soulless1 wrote:does KAI still get the 'build a factory at the bottom of the map so the units can't get out' bug? If so, then it could be that....just try not to put the AI's in positions so near the bottom edge.

Its a very easy to fix bug (the old KAI had it), but im aiming for a more general solution, so it can build kbots on hills and but not vehs, taking the whole area's accesibility into account and not just whats directly in front of the factory. The slopemap works properly now (a confusion between gradient and angles messed it up before, hence stuck units everywhere) so its soon to be done once im back on the 17th.

krogothe wrote:

Soulless1 wrote:does KAI still get the 'build a factory at the bottom of the map so the units can't get out' bug? If so, then it could be that....just try not to put the AI's in positions so near the bottom edge.

Its a very easy to fix bug (the old KAI had it), but im aiming for a more general solution, so it can build kbots on hills and but not vehs, taking the whole area's accesibility into account and not just whats directly in front of the factory. The slopemap works properly now (a confusion between gradient and angles messed it up before, hence stuck units everywhere) so its soon to be done once im back on the 17th.

Groovy!

Any chance that KAI could deal with a factory being the commander?

Wow. I just played a 3 way FFA with 2 KAIs and myself, and I am very impressed.

The only issues I saw were: one AI built a vehicle factory next to a steep slope, then built a Goliath which couldn't get out (I'm not sure though, I think it did get out eventually). Neither of the AIs built any air defence, the Arm bot built a few Jethros and the Core bot made some Avengers at one point but there were no Defenders or Punishers at all, despite a few HLTs and even an Annihilator being placed. The AIs didn't seem to upgrade mexes to mohos, only to build mohos on empty metal spots once they got to T2. Lastly, as already reported, the AI can see stealth units on its maphack.

Not sure how many of these issues are just gameplay things waiting to be implemented or bugs, but there they are. :)

this kai version is still in a very early stage, as the author has pointed out before and is known to have all these issues.

It crashes very early with SWTA for me, just as the first build finishes. Sorry for the lack of detail I'll try it again tonight.

Definitely the best AI mod out there so far (from OTAI XTAI.. NTAI.. ),
(used it in combination with AA-B 2.11 )
(had great fun playing cooperative, in an ally-team with another player against 2 or more cpu's in the 2nd ally-team)

----- Good points: -----
- just about everything!
- superb resource management
- widespread bases, yet not too fragile
- GREAT perimeter defense
- effective offense, even tactical retreats

----- Most annoying bad points so far: -----
- Roaming Commander!
Try to give commander a seperate script, or at least somehow confine it to it's base (say, never go beyond 1/5 of mapsize from base).
(because now it still wanders into enemy bases alone. doesn't retreat when attacked either)

- (almost) no air defense!
building a few rocket turrets right away, and 1 or 2 FLAKs when reaching advanced should solve the problem, maybe this can be hard-coded ?

----- Minor bad points: -----
- AI builds no radar, does see all anyway because of the maphack I guess, but could be usefull with auto-targeting facility later on maybe?

- AI does VERY well at placing defense on borders at high areas, BUT in a map like DeltaSiege this means it runs a long while before actually placing one. (and places them a long way from base in general).
Maybe confine defense to a certain radius around starting area as well for a certain amount of game time?

- seems to reach advanced stage a bit late

---

that's all for now =) will eagerly follow development, I love a good coop game against AI's

Im back at home now! im too tired/busy to work today but ill be doing so soon. A few things for your consideration:
1-The poor general economy handling (imo), and all that goes with it (building placing, suicide builders, bad anti-air distribution, etc) is one of the top priorities atm.
2-If anyone is still crashing on AA or XTA LET ME KNOW ASAP! it should crash on other mods since it does not support all sorts of units (patience!)
3-SBaL, great feedback, its long but concise, to the point and detailed, as well as organized, thanks, the points have been taken into account, though the solutions to those problems will very likely be completely different from the suggested ones

After this much time since last release KAI has been improved here and there, so many little things and such lack of will to make a changelog youll just have to play it, hopefully ill make another release this week.

Hooray!

oh, I forgot to mention something, another minor issue...

About the defense placement:
- on a map like deltasiege, where the starting (base) area is on LOWER ground than it's surroundings, the construction kbots/vehicles will walk a long way just to put a turret on the high ground of a high/low edge.

It seems to prioritize by straight-line distance instead of walk-line distance. Might be a bit tough (and to much work to be worth the effort) to program it to use the walk-distance (obviously not for construction planes), but I thought I'd mention it. (to put on a to-do list for later on )

---
Secondly:
While playing a game on HorstAndGraben, a lot of AI ground vehicles (about 40!) were camping below one of my Sentinel guns for about half an hour (which stood on the edge of a high ground). The Sentinel could shoot down and hit them, but the AI couldn't aim up (because they were too close for the max gun slope I think).
Maybe there should be some kind of backup system that will tell units to get new orders (retreat, circle target, outflank), or send in other units (bombers) to attack its target when a unit has been trying to attack something and has been in range for a certain amount of time, but hasn't done any damage.
(again, not a major issue, but worth looking into because it's to easy to exploit)

Seems like this release will take a while! Today I added a very early mex upgrading algorithm and better builder management (so they arent stuck with their factories), but it played worse somehow, so that needs sorting. There are some other outstanding fixes in the map resolutions and category systems, and were all busy atm(and im abroad again on tuesday for a week, tournesol has a friend over and firenu seems constantly afk).
I wanted to release to give you guys some time to test the new features (metal map support, better building targetting, units grouped by speed etc), but its sluggish and playing a tad worse than 0.11. Meanwhile, enjoy AAI 0.7 its pretty sweet!