Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **20 Oct 2011, 21:57**

AF wrote:...

...

Autohost developers
Bibim and Licho, of which bibim I have seen no trace of in quite a while.

Of note, Lichos springie constellation of autohosts already implements what I suggested to prevent autohost spam. ( and while currently there are 2 planetwars and 2 springies, this could be reduces to 1 of each, but it's still nothign compared to the 8 BA tourney bots, the 4 empty robot defence hostmind autohosts, the 4 [ACE]Serveur, 5 [fi], autohosts etc

Autohost owners
Are for the most part either unaware of this issue, unwilling, or not even a part of the community. It's easy to setup SPADS and forget about it.

Autohost owners will need to be approached individually.
...

Hi,
This is quite good, I can explain myself about [ACE] autohosts owner.

First of all, please don't consider I spam because I have 6 autohosts this is quite false, just because :
- I can create any account to run an autohost, and what's the hell to tag their name as our team ?
- All my autohosts are diff├®rent way of playing or mod, I was so sure about a complete understandable description, but it seems not, please re-read description :

[ACE]Serveur /// (~<[ACE]>~) BA 10v10 Enjoy ~ Full of beans ///
Classic BA, How many total BA autohosts ? Many, so maybe I spam then...
[ACE]Serveur_II /// (~<[ACE]>~) BA *FFA* game ~ Never say die ///
How many total FFA autohosts ? 2 ! Spam ? Not really...
[ACE]Serveur_III (born to promote new BA 7.60 Alpha 2) /// (~<[ACE]>~) BA 55 units max/com ~ Cool ! ///
Kind of special way of play (55 units max or no T2, no special units)... How many autohosts like this ? 0. Spam ? No.
[ACE]Serveur_IV /// (~<[ACE]>~) BA Chicken Defense ~ When pigs fly ///
Classic BA Chicks, how many autohost ? 1 ! Mine ! Spam ? No !
[ACE]Serveur_V /// (~<[ACE]>~) TA V2.13 ~ *No T4* ~ Full of beans ///
TA + No T4, how many TA autohosts ? 5 (with T4). Spam ? Maybe...
[ACE]Serveur_VI (currently down due to an upgrade that doesn't want to) /// (~<[ACE]>~) Robot Wars ~ Enjoy ~ Full of beans ///
Special dedicaced autohot to Senna due to his new RobotWars MOD promo. How many autohosts ? 0. Spam ? No.

By this way, I'm not sure creating (so many) max-players dedicaced autohosts (1v1 style, 2v2 to 4v4 and so on) is a good thing, just because it's easy to do a !teamsize command, everyone knows how to.
However, doing some special rules could be more interesting, commands to disable units or setting some special settings are not easely accessible to players.

Thx for reading, cu.

Posted: **21 Oct 2011, 01:02**

Thanks for responding.

There's nothing stopping people running a FFA in the 8v8, or a 1v1 in the 4v4. I can see why you would do it but it's not necessary. As such you should be able to run one BA autohost, the others running chicken and robot wars can be considered separately.

Posted: **21 Oct 2011, 01:06**

Btw springie "hive" works in a simple way - each autohost line always has one empty autohost ready.

That way if there is nobody there is just one per each line (like 1 empty ZK autohost, 1 empty planetwars).
If people join, automatically 1 new autohost of same line spaws to keep 1 empty ready on standby.

Also anyone can tell springie to !spawn a new autohost just for him with password and bigger control over it (like permissions to kick people directly).

But generally I dont think that autohost spam is a problem. You can filter active games only.

Posted: **22 Oct 2011, 06:05**

I'm really against excessive moderation.
I feel It's better to use a carrot than a stick.

I get the feeling the real problem is that too many current players would rather wait and or RE for the perfect match than just play what they consider a bad match. if you enforce smaller games you may end up exacerbating this trend if it ends up being harder to match a small set of players vs a large set of players.

All that being said, I really think that much of the problem will go away as soon as the new version goes live, you'll find a lot of old players coming back to see what's changed, which will fill up rooms and more will be created.

As long as the different mods/games are ready for it and it's publicised a bit we should be good.

Posted: **22 Oct 2011, 06:17**

I suspect the path follower fixes will bring a lot of people back.

Posted: **22 Oct 2011, 13:58**

We've already talked about

Numbers of autohosts,
Max players,
Max specs.

What about a discuss regards to :
- Allow or disallow joining a current running lobby's game ( !autolock feature ) ?

What is your opinion ?
Do you think that players waiting in an empty battle lobby (instead of in a running battle) could offer more active battles ?

Cya

Posted: **22 Oct 2011, 14:34**

Whatif... players were allowed to be in multiple lobbys at once?
soon as a game starts in one of the lobbys they get pulled out of the others. though allowing spec in one game, and being able to pull the player out of spec to join a starting game could be good too.

probably need to limit it to two or three lobbys at a time.

Posted: **22 Oct 2011, 15:05**

se5a wrote:Whatif... players were allowed to be in multiple lobbys at once?
soon as a game starts in one of the lobbys they get pulled out of the others. though allowing spec in one game, and being able to pull the player out of spec to join a starting game could be good too.

probably need to limit it to two or three lobbys at a time.

This would require protocol changes, and those are unlikely to happen in the near future.

Regarding autlock, springlobby has the column showing time since the game started, and the merits of the suggestion are debatable

Posted: **23 Oct 2011, 11:18**

[11:04:26 AM] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Bonne attente, et merci pour la promotion. Tu remercieras ├®galement to copain de team.
[11:04:54 AM] <[ll]JBIEBER> ah ├ºa va Fabrice, tu vas pas en faire tout un foin
[11:05:05 AM] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est de bonne guerre ya rien de mechant
[11:05:06 AM] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Je m'en fiche, ce n'est pas respectueux, tu n'as pas ├á faire ├ºa.
[11:05:20 AM] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Non, je ne tol├¿re pas, point, ├ºa ne se discutte pas.
[11:05:22 AM] <[ll]JBIEBER> et tout le monde sait que les gros host sont plein a chaque fois

Ok that's all in french, people can use google translator (works pretty well on this one) if they want but JiZaH here tried to lure some players to the [x]TheHost in order to get multiple battles running but Fabrice basically told him to fuck off and eventually banned JiZaH. What for?

Oh and according to JiZaH:

[12:09:52] <[ll]JBIEBER> he doesnt like it
[12:10:08] <[ll]JBIEBER> I didnt respect the rules of spring community

Jiz didn't respect the rules of spring community, I see.

Posted: **23 Oct 2011, 11:31**

Carpenter wrote:Jiz didn't respect the rules of spring community, I see.

Ah yes... I saw this also some times: If a player goes to a host and tells players, that there is a game waiting for a player or two in another host, this is sees as "stealing my players". Which IMO is ridiculous, because they don't belong to anyone!
IMO it has to do with bot owners epenis length == player+spec-count.

Can anyone point me to the spring (hosts/online play) community rules, cause I can't find them on springrts.com?

Posted: **23 Oct 2011, 11:44**

If you play along the rules you allready lost...

They are the same sort of document, the bill of rights is. Sounds good at first, and sure makes hell of a Serve-yet-hey to wave if the state its you for breakfast, but if you read it, you realize fast, that the idealistic humans inside (those who are the people) and those (who are goverment) dont have much to do with reality.

Why not make up rules yourself? You could prose them as fairy-tales, ending them with grim bloody torture.

┬º1.. BlaBlaBla.. and everybody lived happily ever after, and the played music and danced, and then the comnapper was flown in, and he had to dance among them, wearing glowing iron boots, that were heated up by the pyros, and he danced till ComBoom declared the party to be over.

Posted: **23 Oct 2011, 18:59**

Jools wrote:Indeed. Very cool.

Now we just need to port it to Amiga OS and we have all major platforms covered :)

AMMMIIIIIIGAAAAAAAA!
Disclaimer: I have actually never owned an Amiga. I've just always wanted to say that.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 04:30**

1st/ of all,
I'm in right to refuse promotion in all my autohosts, I don't do that any elsewhere, so why will we/I receive this ? (for info, just after an ended game, that [ll]COOLJAMES just played) :

[Sun Oct 23 10:50:55 2011] <[ll]COOLJAMES> jiz
[Sun Oct 23 10:50:58 2011] <[ll]COOLJAMES> x host
[Sun Oct 23 10:51:01 2011] <[ll]COOLJAMES>
[Sun Oct 23 10:51:03 2011] === [ll]JBIEBER left ===
[Sun Oct 23 10:51:04 2011] === [ll]COOLJAMES left ===

And 10 min later, without any previous succes and a previous ban, his team friend did it at his turn :

[Sun Oct 23 11:00:52 2011] === [ll]JBIEBER joined ===
[...]
[Sun Oct 23 11:01:06 2011] <[ll]JBIEBER> JOIN TABULA U NOOBS ON X HOST JOIN NOW
[Sun Oct 23 11:01:08 2011] === [ll]JBIEBER left ===

Still no succes, and impossible to come back again for [ll]COOLJAMES and [ll]JBIEBER, [ll]JBIEBER decided to flood 20 min later, #main channel :

[11:21] ** [Prof]FuNtastiC joined the channel.
[11:22] <[ll]JBIEBER> join [x]TheHost people!
[11:22] <[ll]JBIEBER> join [x]TheHost people!
[11:22] ** Server ** [ll]JBIEBER was muted for spamming.
[11:23] ** Springie3 joined the channel.

So, as far as I'm concerned, I waited "@ home" often long days, alone, for some coming player.
The only promotion (not sure 'bout players could see it well) I've tried few times with the inclued and well set !promote command in #newbies, #french, #fr, #[BoB] and #[ACE].
Also rare, by private msg for some players waiting in a current running battle (they don't spec running game, they just wait in autohost lobby).

I NEVER did, ans will NEVER DO some promotion in #main, neither on any autohost.
Yes I know, I'm a rough man.

I have experienced this, and all players left, and only 3 I remember, stayed, never again.

So now, if for some reason, players don't feel good because they can't promote in my autohosts, can't SHOUT, can't insult, can't blame, and so on, all such comportments that don't build an healthy atmosphere, no pb : They could be free to see if the grass is more greener on any other host (so much choice !!) , I don't force them to stay.

And, the icing on the cake, to finnish with that, with players in a such state before the above-mentioned :

[Sun Oct 23 10:12:29 2011] <[ll]JBIEBER> watching rugby
[Sun Oct 23 10:12:37 2011] <[ll]COOLJAMES>
[Sun Oct 23 10:12:42 2011] <[ll]JBIEBER> and im fucking drunk

I will not remake the world, but it's not because we are on Internet network that I (and all current players here) gonna suffer by such behavior.
A word to salvation.

To stay in the current topic with this nice off-one, stupid promotion as previously quoted is not a rule of common sense.
It just permit to bring 90% of players on any other autohost, for feeling better "@ home" by spammers, not for splitting numbers of players neither specs.
This is NOT the way to, and not prone to the current topic.

@Carpenter, I have no lessons to give you, but before throwing a topic, make sure to check what they give you with the various parts involved, before making a decision, I do not know if you deliberately hidden part to protect someone or if you just didn't get all the dialog.

Carpenter wrote:but Fabrice basically told him to fuck off and eventually banned JiZaH. What for?

You're totally false : ┬½Fuck Off┬╗ is NOT the english for ┬½Ferme ta gueule┬╗.
┬½Ferme ta gueule┬╗ = ┬½Shut up┬╗
Here is the complete conversation :

### Session Start at [2011-10-23 11:04]
[11:04] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Bonne attente, et merci pour la promotion. Tu remercieras ├®galement to copain de team.
[11:04] <[ll]JBIEBER> ah ├ºa va Fabrice, tu vas pas en faire tout un foin
[11:05] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est de bonne guerre ya rien de mechant
[11:05] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Je m'en fiche, ce n'est pas respectueux, tu n'as pas ├á faire ├ºa.
[11:05] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Non, je ne tol├¿re pas, point, ├ºa ne se discutte pas.
[11:05] <[ll]JBIEBER> et tout le monde sait que les gros host sont plein a chaque fois
[11:05] <[ll]JBIEBER> lol
[11:05] <[ll]JBIEBER> alors va te faire voir
[11:05] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> toi aussi et t'es pas pr├¬t de me revoir.
### Session Closed at [2011-10-23 11:06]

### Session Start at [2011-10-23 11:06]
[11:06] <[ll]JBIEBER> j'ai pas envie de te revoir
[11:06] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Ferme ta gueule alors et arr├¬te de m'envoyer des messages priv├®s :)
[11:06] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est bien gamin tas le dernier mot bravo
[11:07] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Bon, visiblement tu ne comprends pas, je te mute des messages priv├®s, je ne les verrai plus. PS : c toi qui a commenc├® avec "alors va te faire voir" Alors, regardes-toi dans un mirroir avant d'aller juger les autres o_O
[11:08] <[ll]JBIEBER> [11:06:42 AM] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est bien gamin tas le dernier mot bravo

Translating / Traduction :
[11:05] <[ll]JBIEBER> alors va te faire voir = So go fuck off
[11:05] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> toi aussi et t'es pas pr├¬t de me revoir = You too you'll not see me.
[11:06] <[ll]JBIEBER> j'ai pas envie de te revoir = I don't want to see you back
[11:06] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Ferme ta gueule alors et arr├¬te de m'envoyer des messages priv├®s :) = Shut up and stop sending me private messages :)
[11:06] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est bien gamin tas le dernier mot bravo = Good kid, you have the last word
[11:07] <[ACE]FabriceFABS> Bon, visiblement tu ne comprends pas, je te mute des messages priv├®s, je ne les verrai plus. PS : c toi qui a commenc├® avec "alors va te faire voir" Alors, regardes-toi dans un mirroir avant d'aller juger les autres o_O = So, seems that you don't understand, I mute private messages, I won't see them anymore. PS : It's you that started with "So go fuck off" So, look yourself in a mirror before criticizing others o_O
[11:08] <[ll]JBIEBER> [11:06:42 AM] <[ll]JBIEBER> c'est bien gamin tas le dernier mot bravo = Good kid, you have the last word

And with all of this, is it ME that told him to get f**ked ?
If I was so stupid as I seem, I do not even take a second to p*ss me off to reply to this topic.

And what makes me even more shit, is that it's people who are in their right which must be justified, it's the world upside down !

Is it very healthy to go talking a dispute to someone else ?

If a player think received something bad from me, I'm always opened for duscussion if the goal is contructive.
I question myself, but here, no, the conversation did not bring something interesting.
It sometimes happened to go again (like I did today) I have banned people, and often, after discussion, withdrew the ban is because I find discussion constructive, I thought maybe I went too far, or even that the player has gone too far on aggression placed on another team, or I received an apology...etc.

Now, I'm bored to wash one's dirty linen.
I don't hassle anyone anywhere, I gently wait "@ home", then, no one has to p*ss me off, that's all.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 05:07**

FWIW, I think it is terribly rude to join a match just to pull players out of it.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 05:17**

On-topic: For a long time, Zero-K lobby had an awesome quick-automatching feature, where you'd specify the game type you were looking for and it would pair you up with similarly-skilled players.
People didn't use it, though, and it eventually went away.

The code's still available, though, and if any of you BA folks want to try and use it to solve your problem, I don't imagine anyone would object.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 10:04**

smoth wrote:FWIW, I think it is terribly rude to join a match just to pull players out of it.

I understand it feels rude, but in the current (BA) situation: What if the host has >=10 specs - it's not like it's disrupting anything?

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 16:19**

Sorry Fabrice, didn't know JiZaH was drunk and I pretty much relied on his word about your conversation, so I apologize for that.

To the point; Pulling people to another host is not wrong as long as it makes more games happen. If there's a DSD game going with 20 players and 10 spectating it, I think it is more than recommended to go there and ask the specs to join if they want to play (they might not see the other host waiting for players so why not to advertise it :) ). However it should be done nicely, not the Jiz way.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 16:22**

dansan wrote:
smoth wrote:FWIW, I think it is terribly rude to join a match just to pull players out of it.
I understand it feels rude, but in the current (BA) situation: What if the host has >=10 specs - it's not like it's disrupting anything?

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 16:29**

how is it rude to go to a dsd host and ask players if they would rather play something else? (assuming you are not trying to sabotage the game)
it is manual match making.

Posted: **24 Oct 2011, 16:35**

Matchmaking is on my todo .. it will need lobbies to implement !join host command.

Spring RTS Engine

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