Spring RTS Engine

Caydr wrote:True, but on the other hand you wouldn't kamikaze your commander anymore now would you? The more I think about it, the more I think it might be worth a try.

Oh, good news. I just checked the bug tracker and [insert disclaimer about me being wrong most of the time] it appears that torpedo bombers may have been fixed.

yea, i saw one flying over and i was think "why, its not liek they work anywyas." the things launched a torpedo and took out my ship. good to see it working again

don't let the comm rezz. sure it may take time to rezz units but it would still give him too big of an advantage. lvl 2 and higher units may take a long time to rezz but lvl 1 units dont take too long. at least most of them dont. on small maps, if someone lost his units and didnt have too big of an economy to build back up, he'd have to face all of his lost units plus whatever his opponent built in the meantime. it would be interesting to see on bigger maps maybe. if people really want it, just make a mod with him having the ability to rezz like the hovercomm mod. leave the regular aa comm as he is

wizard8873 wrote:yea, i saw one flying over and i was think "why, its not liek they work anywyas." the things launched a torpedo and took out my ship. good to see it working again

Don't they work on ships but not subs in this version?

Egarwaen wrote:

wizard8873 wrote:yea, i saw one flying over and i was think "why, its not liek they work anywyas." the things launched a torpedo and took out my ship. good to see it working again

Don't they work on ships but not subs in this version?

correct

The SVN says that SJ has solved the torpedo bomber vs. submarines problem. Vs. boats has been working fine most of the time.

maybe the commander should push the whole economy

so if your commander is alive, every single unit builds by factor 1,1 faster and produces by 1,1 more resources

also a good method to prevent comm bombing

isnt a commander "commanding" his army or what? come on - no one would waste the head of a hive mind

is like "send in more trains!"

Suit wrote:maybe the commander should push the whole economy

so if your commander is alive, every single unit builds by factor 1,1 faster and produces by 1,1 more resources

also a good method to prevent comm bombing

isnt a commander "commanding" his army or what? come on - no one would waste the head of a hive mind

is like "send in more trains!"

Umm, if you want that, just play "game ends".

jep, but thats not realistic

the commander coordinates his units

if he is dead, units are most likly without any guidance - but look at the actual scheme: all units and buildings explode at the moment the commander dies?

i mean, wtf?

maybe if the commander is dead all units lose any guideance and cant construct any further units or build slower - but explode? no

Suit wrote:jep, but thats not realistic

So? Realism is irrelevant. What's important is good gameplay.

Suit wrote: if he is dead, units are most likly without any guidance - but look at the actual scheme: all units and buildings explode at the moment the commander dies?

The commander is only special because he has certian blueprints and abilities. Otherwise many of the units can act intelligently on their own. these are not worker ants. These are the best patterns and clones found in 4000 years. They are not billy bob and his shotgun.

smoth wrote:They are not billy bob and his shotgun.

Except during a certain April Fool's Day prank...

Egarwaen wrote:

smoth wrote:They are not billy bob and his shotgun.

Except during a certain April Fool's Day prank...

at which point we would also get a new gui (or skin, anyway), if the legends are true

Suit wrote:jep, but thats not realistic

the commander coordinates his units

if he is dead, units are most likly without any guidance - but look at the actual scheme: all units and buildings explode at the moment the commander dies?

i mean, wtf?

maybe if the commander is dead all units lose any guideance and cant construct any further units or build slower - but explode? no

Fine, what would make the most sense is that, on "Game Ends" the player is eliminated, and all his units are deactivated and unarmed, waiting for one of his teammates to .take them. In an FFA game where nobody is around to .take, the commander can capture them or they can be reclaimed for scrap. But that's something to discuss in an engine thread, not as a mod.

Maybe the logic is that, since the commander is dead then naturally forces would be in disarray and without coordination. Like a bunch of McDonalds workers left without meat to putrify. They're ripe for capture or other subversion. So an automatic self-destruct is activated.

I could come up with an epic backstory for this design, if you like

Caydr wrote:Maybe the logic is that, since the commander is dead then naturally forces would be in disarray and without coordination. Like a bunch of McDonalds workers left without meat to putrify. They're ripe for capture or other subversion. So an automatic self-destruct is activated.

I could come up with an epic backstory for this design, if you like

Still, gameplay-wise, the "game ends" system is suboptimal. It's bad for teamgames since losing a teammate commander cripples one side so much it prettymuch ends the game. I'd like a middle option for "player eliminated" as a middleground between "game ends" and "continues". Here's how I figure it - when the comm is dead, the player is eliminated, as if he'd disconnected (but hes just gone Spec). His army is immediately set as follows: decloak all, holdfire all, off all, and they all take maximum stun damage. This leaves them open to be reclaimed, killed, whatever - and stuns them for a bit in case anyone .takes them, letting the team who just killed a commander capitalize on their momentary advantage. Hell, I'd like the stun for "continues" too.

But really it's the SYs I should be mention this to.

A few thoughts about the commander as the only rez unit.

• Someone mentioned that it wouldn't be as detrimental to lose a factory at the beginning of the game.
  
  This isn't much different except instead of reclaiming and then rebuilding you just rez. There is a small difference in metal cost, but I would propose a new rez mode where it costs metal equal to the difference in metal build cost and the metal value the wreckage.
• Someone mentioned that if someone attacks with a bunch of units and loses, after already being weak he will be facing his old units.
  
  How is this different than _any_ con reclaiming all the metal and then building an offsensive. Being careful about leaving corpses for the enemy to reclaim is already an important factor of OTA/Spring.
• Rez and dgun work nicely together.
  
  If you use your comm offensively, dguning, there will be no corpes left around to rez.

Overall, I really like this idea.

Still, gameplay-wise, the "game ends" system is suboptimal. It's bad for teamgames since losing a teammate commander cripples one side so much it prettymuch ends the game. I'd like a middle option for "player eliminated" as a middleground between "game ends" and "continues". Here's how I figure it - when the comm is dead, the player is eliminated, as if he'd disconnected (but hes just gone Spec). His army is immediately set as follows: decloak all, holdfire all, off all, and they all take maximum stun damage. This leaves them open to be reclaimed, killed, whatever - and stuns them for a bit in case anyone .takes them, letting the team who just killed a commander capitalize on their momentary advantage. Hell, I'd like the stun for "continues" too.

also just use 'h' to switch coms with your teammate and ta-da. losing his com (and not having yours) doesnt kill you. HA. continues FTW, in team games anyway

Min3mat wrote:also just use 'h' to switch coms with your teammate and ta-da. losing his com (and not having yours) doesnt kill you. HA. continues FTW, in team games anyway

So you can do what? combomb your enemy and he loses and you don't? What's the point of that? If you plan to win like that. Don't play at all. It's like cheating in Monkey Island 1.

This is somewhat off-topic for this thread suppose, but here is a good comm ends strat.

Keep an llt or something deep in your base on a hotkey and if at any time during the game you see an enemy com, tell it to attack the com (it doesn't matter how far away they are). Now any time in the game you want to know where the comm is you can hit that hotkey and press shift to see where the com is. Later in the game you can build a bunch of adv bombers and some radar planes as spotters. Send the spotters toward the com (known by using your targetted unit). A few seconds later send your bombers. When the spotters show the comm tell all your bombers to attack the com. GG.

Play Hover Commanders!!!!

det wrote:This is somewhat off-topic for this thread suppose, but here is a good comm ends strat.

Keep an llt or something deep in your base on a hotkey and if at any time during the game you see an enemy com, tell it to attack the com (it doesn't matter how far away they are). Now any time in the game you want to know where the comm is you can hit that hotkey and press shift to see where the com is. Later in the game you can build a bunch of adv bombers and some radar planes as spotters. Send the spotters toward the com (known by using your targetted unit). A few seconds later send your bombers. When the spotters show the comm tell all your bombers to attack the com. GG.

thats not so much a strategy as it is an exploit