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Re: He died?

Posted: 06 May 2011, 21:24
by smoth
Iraq is not the only tribal dominated region, kuwait Saudi Arabia etc. It is just a cultural hold over for that region of the world Africa->India you know? On your other point I think you mean nationalism, which is a problem/system not just in the USA.

There have already been some really good discussions on nationalism as a system I just CBA to do the forum search. Any who can remember the links can you post those cool YouTube links on nationalism for nightcold?

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 00:35
by Forboding Angel
nightcold wrote:@smoth: there are many good people on america, it is just the dominating patriotic narrative that i despise... by "true" american i mean the patriotic narrative that is sold to us on the tv/media....and i said a(1) million, not millions
Sold to you by YOUR media, so basically, you admit that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Called it.
smoth wrote:Btw my college mentor was a Lebanese Muslim, just sayin'. You need to realize that there are Americans, good ones who also hail from all over. It is kinda what being American is about, being a big mixing pot. So take you idiotic assertions about "true Americans" elsewhere. True Americans are the native americans, just sayin. Now modern americans love diversity and are a mongrel nation.
^^ This
Except, I'll go so far as to say what smoth meant to say:
So take your idiotic assertions about "true Americans" and shove them directly up your ass.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 01:50
by smoth
No, I don't think he should sodomize himself with ideas... why did I imagine adam ant saying that...

Sinbad, I think you guys are confusing human traits with American traits.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 03:01
by Regret
From zeitgeist movement newsletter:
TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden wrote:On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the
spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of
the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in
Pakistan.

Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural
psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and
Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like
the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,
reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.

It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such
an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception
was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States
Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross
irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and
emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true
root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.

The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means
nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death
simply serves as a catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on
revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a
psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it
citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to
anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the
quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.

However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of
rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more
practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the
importance of that problem with respect to priority.

The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.
It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of
relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and
communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September
11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during
the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.

As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically
limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that
allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this
context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001
become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has
now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is
spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that
pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.

Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine
over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330
9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget
allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the
money spent on ÔÇ£anti-terrorismÔÇØ operations.

Such a list could go on and on with regard to the perversion of priority
when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I
hope many out there can recognize the severe imbalance we have at hand with
respect to our values.

So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude
this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most
brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of
non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed,
killing four little girls attending Sunday school.

In a public address, Dr. King stated:

ÔÇ£What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many
people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So
tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God
has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.
We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the
soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical
weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take
up the ammunition of love.ÔÇØ

- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -


~Peter Joseph

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
Wise words from wise people that I find myself agreeing with.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 03:28
by smoth
Unwise words. Stopped reading at:
"praising the death of another human being"

yes because that is why they are cheering. Cmon, are people really so shallow as to think it is actually the death that is being celebrated. For many people the "death" of Osama represents closure, a release from an emotional burden. Sure most of the sheeple will say they are happy he is dead but that isn't really what they are feeling elated about. It is a complex thing and every trendy putz on the internet is evaluating it on the surface level.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 03:56
by Regret
smoth wrote:Unwise words. Stopped reading at:
"praising the death of another human being"
I will not lead a discussion with someone who lacks the patience/self-control to read through the post he is responding to (or claims so).

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 05:36
by Forboding Angel
What so we're supposed to be sad that Osama is dead? Fuck that. I'm happy the asshole is dead. It might not do anything in the long run, but it makes me and 300 million other people feel better, and fuck any eurojerk incapable of understanding that.
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
in what could only be described as celebration of an extremely long mission coming one step closer to a finish,
Eurojerkery removed.

This trash doesn't even deserved to be classified as journalism.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 06:54
by Johannes
YEAAA awesome US military is so badass, finally nailed that fucker, nobody can escape from you, sense of security restored. Every american rejoice.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 09:28
by nightcold
@forb: i dont get it....how was i undermining myself??? you are clearly not afraid to go all gun-ho on anything you can

about the tribes in iraq..they are a bit diffrent than other places, since iraq is a synthasized nation and they are all very hostile towards each other....i did not know tribalism was that far reaching, i thought it was just a arab thing, since the persians/turks/kurds all dont have it(india is a place i know not 2 much about). (actaully i have heard stories from some of my familly members about how vulgar arabic tribalism can be)

and it is true, i'am not friend to nationalism......and how corporations use the media to bend nationalists for their interests(and call it freedom)(sort of agreeing with Sinbad here, i think)

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 10:07
by momfreeek
Forboding Angel wrote:me and 300 million other people feel better, and fuck any eurojerk incapable of understanding that.
(that "eurojerk" is american :roll:.. but nvm)

was that forb simplifying all americans as thinking alike in some patriotic hivemind?

and isn't that exactly what nightcold was talking about?
Forboding Angel wrote:
nightcold wrote:@smoth: there are many good people on america, it is just the dominating patriotic narrative that i despise... by "true" american i mean the patriotic narrative that is sold to us on the tv/media....and i said a(1) million, not millions
Sold to you by YOUR media, so basically, you admit that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Called it.
Sold to us by you FA

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 10:40
by Cheesecan

Code: Select all

<item>One multitrillion-dollar military-industrial complex</item>
<item>10 years</item>
<item>Two presidents</item>
<item>Two four star generals</item>
<item>2358 dead coalition soldiers</item>
<item>16,000+ wounded coalition soldiers</item>
<value>What it took the US to hunt down a cripple who purportedly rode out of Afghanistan on a donkey</value>
Da presdunt dun said dats da singul gratust akomplishmen in da war on terror, god bless im hes so braev fightin dem dur terrorists in dat durr F-16 whatchumacallsit air force one.
Image
Image

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 10:48
by SpliFF
Forboding Angel wrote:in what could only be described as celebration of an extremely long mission coming one step closer to a finish
Really? Both Obama and the Australian PM couldn't go 5 sentences into their respective speeches without banging the drums for the "war on terror" again. Something along the lines of "We got Osama but the terrorists.. bla bla bla... Taliban... bla bla... fear... bla bla... sacrifices... bla bla... never rest... bla bla bla... more money."

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 11:30
by Forboding Angel
That's not what we were discussing spliff. The point is, that apparently people have a hard time understanding why America in general is happy that osama is dead. Maybe you guys need some terrorists to hijack some planes and run em into shit and kill a bunch of people too so you can get the idea. Not recommended tho.

@night, the expression is "Gung-ho".

The rest of your post was a whole bunch of jibberish.

@momfreek, no that isn't what he was talking about, but I don't really feel like explaining it. A lot of what nightcold says is only semi intelligible, which isn't helping.

Population, United States

307,006,550 - Jul 2009
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Population Division

See, 7 million people are unhappy that Osama is dead. Hivemind neutralized.

Now, the people posting vids on youtube driving around chanting shit, ok that's just strange, but stop and think that someone they know or a relative may have died in the twin towers. Don't be upset when people are happy that a mass murderer gets what he so richly deserves. That's simply a natural reaction. Kind of like when you see a movie and a real dickwad bites it. You're happy about it.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 11:49
by momfreeek
so you're saying only 97% of americans think alike. That would be like everyone over the age of 2 :wink:

hivemind not neutralised.. but thats not the point, its just another BS number. You certainly did mean "the vast majority".
Forboding Angel wrote:@momfreek, no that isn't what he was talking about, but I don't really feel like explaining it. A lot of what nightcold says is only semi intelligible, which isn't helping.
I sensed a language barrier but I didn't find it unintelligable. What use is your explanation if you're not sure you understood?

I'm pretty sure the "dominating patriotic narrative" he was talking about was evident here:
Forboding Angel wrote:me and 300 million other people feel better, and fuck any eurojerk incapable of understanding that.
maybe I'm misunderstanding nightcold too (but no, I'm not taking your word for that FA)

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 12:59
by Regret
Forboding Angel wrote:What so we're supposed to be sad that Osama is dead? Fuck that. I'm happy the asshole is dead. It might not do anything in the long run, but it makes me and 300 million other people feel better, and fuck any eurojerk incapable of understanding that.
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
in what could only be described as celebration of an extremely long mission coming one step closer to a finish,
Eurojerkery removed.

This trash doesn't even deserved to be classified as journalism.
"Peter Joseph is an American independent filmmaker."

But keep on spouting non-sense in an insulting manner, I'm sure it will help get your point across, whatever it may be!

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 15:50
by bobthedinosaur
Reports are saying that Bin Laden's death is rallying more sympathy for his organizations and therefore he is selling more in death than in life (similar to the Michael Jackson CD sales). Also with the whole martyr thing I think that capturing him and keeping him alive would not only set a better international example, it takes out the martyr aspect (think 1984 they don't have to kill you for you to be defeated), and the intelligence community would have had a powerful and experienced prisoner to study.

I would think for those reasons it should have been priority in capturing him, but maybe he isn't worth that much other than a political symbol?

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 15:56
by Teutooni
Regret wrote:"Peter Joseph is an American independent filmmaker."
He must be a damn liberal. Them and eurojerks have an unholy cabal.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 16:08
by bobthedinosaur
And there goes the civil discussion.
This is why don't play in political games....

close this stupid fucking thread.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 17:30
by smoth
bobthedinosaur wrote:Reports are saying that Bin Laden's death is rallying more sympathy for his organizations and therefore he is selling more in death than in life (similar to the Michael Jackson CD sales). Also with the whole martyr thing I think that capturing him and keeping him alive would not only set a better international example, it takes out the martyr aspect (think 1984 they don't have to kill you for you to be defeated), and the intelligence community would have had a powerful and experienced prisoner to study.

I would think for those reasons it should have been priority in capturing him, but maybe he isn't worth that much other than a political symbol?
I agree, like I said earlier, his death only leveled the guy up.

it's like obiwan getting stronger even in death.

Re: He died?

Posted: 07 May 2011, 17:35
by smoth
Regret wrote:
smoth wrote:Unwise words. Stopped reading at:
"praising the death of another human being"
I will not lead a discussion with someone who lacks the patience/self-control to read through the post he is responding to (or claims so).
you are exalting that idiot behind the zeitgeist bullshit. You a fan of Ron Hubbard as well?