Third War: A new Spring game

Third War: A new Spring game

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Captaintoottoot
Posts: 4
Joined: 05 Aug 2017, 18:57

Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Captaintoottoot » 02 May 2019, 23:11

I'm not sure where to post this so I will post this here. My spring engine and zeroK friends I have a treat for you. For eight months I’ve been making a new game off of an old version of zeroK. It’s a World War 3 battle game. All unit’s ranges, speeds, and rates of fire are exactly equivalent to their real world values. So for example the speed difference of an M1 Abrams and an AH64 Apache is equal to the real world difference. Also damages were kept realistic so the actual number of bombs, missiles, or cannon hits to kill certain things like a tank or an aircraft carrier are real. The only factor I allowed to deviate from real life was cost, for the purpose of balance. Although I started with all units costing equivalent to their real world value, like an Abrams at 9 million (cost 900), and an F-16 at 20 million (cost 2000) I had to deviate for many reasons. First for game balance. Second because some units like naval units and nukes would be so absurdly high since they are in the billions they would never be seen in the game. So I toned down the power of the naval units but also reduced their cost. I also had to bend the rules for infantry units like the rifleman. Their effective range in reality is 500 meters, but in game units that would be 100 and it’s absurd to see them run up to only begin attacking at point blank ranges. Their game range was made 200 (so 1000 meters effectively). This doesn’t hinder gameplay and they still serve their purpose. Their speed should also be 0.5 but until the truck transport is fixed it’s at 1.

Unit model scales are also kept to scale. The only deviation is naval units. Naval units are ½ their actual scale, lest an aircraft carrier block the view of the whole map. So an infantryman is the same scale to a tank is to a F16 is to a stealth bomber.

Missiles aren’t 100% certain to hit anymore and each time they launch, depending on the target’s angle difference and chance determine the likelihood of a hit, as in reality. A player that micro’s his SAMs by controlling their fire until the right time could get better results, and conversely, an attacker can get better results based purely off their angle of attack with their air units.

Different forms of nuke and antinukes are available. Nukes can be launched from: Nuclear silo, Nuclear truck(Topol), nuclear missile sub, or loaded onto stealth bomber :) Anti nuke can be done from stationary silo, S400 truck, and later missile cruisers.

A lot of research was done making this game and very little has deviated from real world stats. I am posting this here for a number of reasons. First, I stopped working on the project for a month now. I think mostly because I need to see if there’s enough interest in the community to justify finishing it. Second, I need help finishing it from the ZeroK dev team.
I can’t get a version of the source code to compile and I need to do this to make changes so that the game can begin to truly longer be zeroK anymore. I need help in changing the auto update to no longer target zeroK files and target the latest 3W files instead. I need help getting multiplayer to work so people can browse games and play against each other.

Game Dev Todo:
• Create a set of urban maps that have city structures everywhere
• Create a critter system that allows for unarmed civilian units to move all over the map and run for their sad lives.
• Faction based play. In a teams game team 1 is always US-NATO and have units limited to that faction, and team 2 is Russia-China-Arab. Hence the WW3 theme. So the US team would have the M1 Abrams for its tank and the Russia-China team would have T72s for its tank. FFA would allow players to choose their faction at start.
• Transporting needs adjustment to allow for land and navy units to transport. Right now the truck unit can’t load units unless it is designated as an air unit and I’m not sure why. But a flying truck is pretty stupid... I think anyway.
• Finish unit icons for like guard tower and whatnot
• Finish replacing zeroK building models
• Replace the gui and menu appearances to something more modern ww3ish
• Unit’s need a “stockpile_count” and a “stockpile_max” to set their default stockpile amount and the most it can reach. So like a nuclear sub can only carry 4 nukes if stockpile_max is 4.
• Stockpile needs to be fixed. When the units shoot it reduces the max count I don't know why.
• Air units need to be always fly by default instead of land when idle.
• AI needs improving. CAI works for it but it’s not that challenging. Skirmish AI was challenging but always crashes at end once one team is underwhelming.
• It would be cool to have a mode like chicken mode where players could play with modern warfare Third War units against AI controlled future units from zero-K.


The thread with info on the game is here:
https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/28279

Youtube playist is here (be aware this includes old videos):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qN_1ZZPuDA
Please skip the earlier videos and go to the newer ones first.

I would like to be able to start playing this with people. I need help finishing it or at least getting multiplayer to work. If you've seen the things that need to get done and think you can help please email me at daniellong888@yahoo.com
Last edited by Captaintoottoot on 03 May 2019, 02:41, edited 1 time in total.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 276
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by ThinkSome » 02 May 2019, 23:39

Nice work!

Has no one told you that there already exists a complete WW2 game on the Spring engine?

Fire up Springlobby and come chat with us in channel #s44
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14571
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 May 2019, 04:04

This looks like C&C in spring, daddy fucking approves!
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by PicassoCT » 04 May 2019, 12:50

I want to see this
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Captaintoottoot
Posts: 4
Joined: 05 Aug 2017, 18:57

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Captaintoottoot » 06 May 2019, 22:02

ThinkSome:
This game is modern war though, not WW2.

Forboding Angel:
You got it. Only like C&C but in 3d and expanded.

PicassoCT:
I'm working on making this multiplayer possible and also fixing circuit AI to play without crashing instead. Right now CAI works but it isn't very challenging. If circuit ai can be fixed I will at least be able to release it to people so they can play it in singleplayer against comps while I figure out how to allow people to play multiplayer with it. I've been learning the spring engine as I go since I started on this 8 months ago.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 276
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by ThinkSome » 06 May 2019, 22:45

Captaintoottoot wrote:
06 May 2019, 22:02
This game is modern war though, not WW2.
Sure, but you could at least look at how the most realistic Spring game looks and plays like before spending 8 months developing something "just like it", but moved 100 years into the future. That said, do you plan to implement/have realism such as limited ammunition/fuel, different front/side/rear/top/bottom armor, ...?
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 May 2019, 18:19

Please don't go the hyper realism route. It adds nothing to the gameplay and simply adds complexity for the sake of it.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 276
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by ThinkSome » 08 May 2019, 00:51

Ammo/fuel and armor mechanics are not hyper realism. Hyper realism would be making the soldiers eat, poop and sleep.

Without the ammo/fuel/armor mechanics, your game is no longer a historic game, it is merely BA/TA/whatever with units retextured into camouflage colours.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14571
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Forboding Angel » 08 May 2019, 11:35

So Evo is BA/TA? Good to know. I totally didn't realize.
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MasterBel
Posts: 150
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by MasterBel » 09 May 2019, 12:05

Forboding Angel wrote:
08 May 2019, 11:35
So Evo is BA/TA? Good to know. I totally didn't realize.
In the grand scheme of things, it's basically the same thing when you compare what S44 is to what BA/TA is. I could protest and say that TA and BA are nothing alike, too, if you wanted. Now you realise how offensive it can be to a BA player when you lump all *A together.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Forboding Angel » 10 May 2019, 01:05

MasterBel wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:05
In the grand scheme of things, it's basically the same thing when you compare what S44 is to what BA/TA is. I could protest and say that TA and BA are nothing alike, too, if you wanted. Now you realise how offensive it can be to a BA player when you lump all *A together.
The vast majority of *A projects have had very little actual deviation, which is why it's called *A.

It's fine that you aren't familiar with Evo and it's mechanics, but they are fundamentally different in a lot of ways. I was being sarcastic to make a point, one which you completely missed.

Thinksome made a dumb statement and I was calling him out on it. By his logic, Conflict Terra is "Basically starcraft".
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ThinkSome
Posts: 276
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by ThinkSome » 10 May 2019, 02:12

Forboding Angel wrote:
10 May 2019, 01:05
...
The comment was made to emphasize that a reasonable expectation of games based on some era (whether it be in past or in future) is that they are realistic to that era and it was not meant to start more drama. Perhaps I should have used "ZeroK" instead of "BA/TA/whatever", since this game is said to be based on that. But I guess it is too late for that.
MasterBel wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:05
Now you realise how offensive it can be to a BA player when you lump all *A together.
I actually never said "BA = TA". This was Mando's imagination hard at work. What I said was that BA and TechA are basically the same. Basically here means https://www.thefreedictionary.com/basically: You can look at the unit lists and you will find that a lot of them are the same. You can look at the gameplay and you will see that it, too, is basically the same (minus the 30-40 minutes teching in TechA). If you rather believe Mando, then you can check out #newbies logs from 2019-04-18 and 2019-04-19.


We can only guess about "Third War"'s mechanics at this stage, since toot toot is yet to deliver a repo or materialise in s44.
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MasterBel
Posts: 150
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by MasterBel » 11 May 2019, 00:35

@Forb sorry I didn't make it clear, but I understood your topic was sarcastic.

@Both: My point was not that they are/aren't similar: my point was you've seen this reaction before – that comparing and calling things "the same" can bring a whole lot more baggage than you intend, and can upset people far more than you think is realistic. Because the thing is, when you say something like "BA is basically the same as TA" and one person hates TA and loves BA (say, because of the community), you're dealing with a lot of emotion that's gonna overflow. Just avoid doing it, please.

(apologies for taking this thread further off topic, I just felt it was important for this to be cleared up)
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14571
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Third War: A new Spring game

Post by Forboding Angel » 11 May 2019, 11:06

Once again, it is you who is not understanding. No one is saying that BA is like TA. By referring to *A we are making the observation that one *A game is pretty much the same as another *A spring mod. None of these mods are anything like OTA though. If you legitimately think that, then you haven't played OTA.

Can we veer back on topic now?
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