About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disabled)

About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disabled)

SpringRTS Perl Autohost for Dedicated Server

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danil_kalina
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About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disabled)

Post by danil_kalina » 20 Jan 2015, 12:56

bibim wrote:Indeed I tried to make the plugin API as complete as possible, because hacking SPADS internals directly would force you to disable auto-updates (otherwise your changes would be overwritten during next update). Thus your SPADS instances would slowly become obsolete and even incompatible with other components such as SLDB (this is what happened to NOTA autohosts for example, which can't even send game results nor use TrueSkill service anymore due to lobby server changes).
True and not True :roll:

We must TURN OFF Auto-Updates, because of the some issues causing Spring Dedicated Server freezing. We had to use the version that works well. Also I have heard about similar problems from EVO-Angel long ago. :shock:

For now, NOTA 1.80 uses Spring 94.1, NOTA 1.82 is for Spring 96.0. When Problemless Spring version is released we will also use the latest SPADS. But I think we will TURN OFF Auto-Update either. :oops:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 20 Jan 2015, 13:46

danil_kalina wrote:We must TURN OFF Auto-Updates, because of the some issues causing Spring Dedicated Server freezing. We had to use the version that works well.
I have never heard about such a problem, and I really doubt recent SPADS versions would trigger such freezes if the version you are currently using isn't. Anyway, when you have a problem which you think is related to SPADS, the best way to have it solved is to report the problem instead of ignoring it and using an obsolete version. Maybe then I could have explained you it had nothing to do with SPADS.
danil_kalina wrote:Also I have heard about similar problems from EVO-Angel long ago. :shock:
I have never heard about such a problem.
danil_kalina wrote:For now, NOTA 1.80 uses Spring 94.1, NOTA 1.82 is for Spring 96.0. When Problemless Spring version is released we will also use the latest SPADS.
SPADS is compatible with Spring 98, 96, 94.1, 91, and even older ones. I don't get why you are speaking about Spring versions here.
danil_kalina wrote:But I think we will TURN OFF Auto-Update either. :oops:
You do what you want, you are totally free to use obsolete SPADS versions of course :wink:
I was just explaining here the drawbacks of doing that, and your autohosts are a good example for that.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by danil_kalina » 20 Jan 2015, 14:13

bibim wrote:I have never heard about such a problem, and I really doubt recent SPADS versions would trigger such freezes if the version you are currently using isn't. Anyway, when you have a problem which you think is related to SPADS, the best way to have it solved is to report the problem instead of ignoring it and using an obsolete version. Maybe then I could have explained you it had nothing to do with SPADS.
danil_kalina wrote:Also I have heard about similar problems from EVO-Angel long ago. :shock:
I have never heard about such a problem.
The problem was with Spring binaries ( Spring, Unitsync ). SPADS updates them too. And there was a problem with Spring 94.1 dedicated. It freezes after some time of playing.
bibim wrote:
danil_kalina wrote:But I think we will TURN OFF Auto-Update either. :oops:
You do what you want, you are totally free to use obsolete SPADS versions of course :wink:
I was just explaining here the drawbacks of doing that, and your autohosts are a good example for that.
Oh Yeah :twisted: Thanks :roll:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 20 Jan 2015, 15:00

danil_kalina wrote:The problem was with Spring binaries ( Spring, Unitsync ). SPADS updates them too. And there was a problem with Spring 94.1 dedicated. It freezes after some time of playing.
Oh ok, I though you were speaking about SPADS when you said "We had to use the version that works well".
So actually it's clearly a Spring bug.

On Windows systems, SPADS indeed updates its spring-dedicated, spring-headless, and PerlUnitSync interface (not the unitsync library itself) binaries by default for convenience, according to the version of Spring you are using. But you can disable this without disabling entire SPADS auto-update, simply by setting the autoUpdateBinaries value to "no". Spring binaries will then be untouched but SPADS itself will keep auto-updating (this is the default behaviour on non-windows systems).
Also, if you had spoken about this problem to me I would just have changed the Windows Spring binaries on SPADS auto-update repository, so you wouldn't have had to change anything (less than one minute of work for both of us combined).

But once again, you are totally free to not communicate about the problems you encounter and prefer trying to work around them by yourself, it just seems to me it's not the optimal way to handle it.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by danil_kalina » 20 Jan 2015, 16:00

bibim wrote:On Windows systems, SPADS indeed updates its spring-dedicated, spring-headless, and PerlUnitSync interface (not the unitsync library itself) binaries by default for convenience, according to the version of Spring you are using. But you can disable this without disabling entire SPADS auto-update...
Had not time for searching How and Testing that after at those days.
bibim wrote:Also, if you had spoken about this problem to me I would just have changed the Windows Spring binaries on SPADS auto-update repository, so you wouldn't have had to change anything (less than one minute of work for both of us combined).
Yeah Thanks! You were out of Forum for several days and there wasn't SPADS project at Git Hub.
Anyway, if it is bug and we need a working copy of Spring fast - it is better to disable everything for that time.
bibim wrote:But once again, you are totally free to not communicate about the problems you encounter and prefer trying to work around them by yourself, it just seems to me it's not the optimal way to handle it.
Because of this ( no! I am not lazy :mrgreen:, it is rather human factor for denying )

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I prefer telling to people directly :roll:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 20 Jan 2015, 17:45

danil_kalina wrote:Had not time for searching How and Testing that after at those days.
Disabling Spring binary auto-updates only (autoUpdateBinaries value to change from "yes" to "no") doesn't seem more complicated to me than disabling the entire SPADS auto-update system (autoUpdateRelease value to empty).
And afaik Spring 94 was about 2 years ago, it should be quite enough to locate a setting in the doc if you really wanted...
danil_kalina wrote:You were out of Forum for several days
What? Did you even try to contact me concerning this?
I checked my pm history and the only thing I found which could be related to this problem is PepeAmpere asking me about new Spring binary files, on the 20th of November 2013. I answered him 4 hours later...
And concerning all the messages we exchanged in pm, I usually answer you in less than 1 hour. So I don't understand what you're saying here.
danil_kalina wrote:Anyway, if it is bug and we need a working copy of Spring fast - it is better to disable everything for that time.
That's your opinion. In my view however, if you have found the problem is related to a Spring binary file specifically, the easiest and best way is to just disable Spring binary files auto-updates.
danil_kalina wrote:I prefer telling to people directly :roll:
But why didn't you do that then?
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by danil_kalina » 20 Jan 2015, 18:22

bibim wrote:
danil_kalina wrote:You were out of Forum for several days
What? Did you even try to contact me concerning this?
I checked my pm history and the only thing I found which could be related to this problem is PepeAmpere asking me about new Spring binary files, on the 20th of November 2013. I answered him 4 hours later...
And concerning all the messages we exchanged in pm, I usually answer you in less than 1 hour. So I don't understand what you're saying here.
ok, sorry, i don't remember exactly the situation. it was long ago
bibim wrote:
danil_kalina wrote:Anyway, if it is bug and we need a working copy of Spring fast - it is better to disable everything for that time.
That's your opinion. In my view however, if you have found the problem is related to a Spring binary file specifically, the easiest and best way is to just disable Spring binary files auto-updates.
danil_kalina wrote:I prefer telling to people directly :roll:
But why didn't you do that then?
i don't remember. from now on will contact you directly :wink:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 21 Jan 2015, 14:30

danil_kalina wrote:ok, sorry, i don't remember exactly the situation. it was long ago
i don't remember. from now on will contact you directly :wink:
Just to be clear, I don't care that you are running obsolete SPADS autohosts, you are the one who has to face the consequences, not me.
The only reason I argued with you is that you claimed that you do that because you have to, which is wrong of course.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by danil_kalina » 21 Jan 2015, 16:02

bibim wrote:Just to be clear, I don't care that you are running obsolete SPADS autohosts, you are the one who has to face the consequences, not me.
yes, it allows me to change some logic behavior.
you have made a good work. code is not difficult to understand. but there are difficult parts.
bibim wrote:The only reason I argued with you is that you claimed that you do that because you have to, which is wrong of course.
I remembered why I didn't contact you.

I had to change SPADS, because of different logic behavior. if SPADS gets updated, ... it will be a disaster for our hosts :roll:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 21 Jan 2015, 16:19

Ok, I guess you didn't get the purpose of the plugin API then.
Have fun with SPADS hacking ;)
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by danil_kalina » 21 Jan 2015, 16:24

bibim wrote:Ok, I guess you didn't get the purpose of the plugin API then.
Have fun with SPADS hacking ;)
I needed to turn off some features. I don't know how to do it by using plugins :cry:
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost

Post by bibim » 21 Jan 2015, 18:33

danil_kalina wrote:I needed to turn off some features. I don't know how to do it by using plugins :cry:
Which features did you need to turn off?
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bibim
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by bibim » 02 Mar 2015, 23:32

So danil you didn't answer, what are these features that you needed to disable for your hosts?
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danil_kalina
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by danil_kalina » 03 Mar 2015, 08:16

i need to change text that SPADS sends to clients. for example to make poll works better, to automate it with a lobby. ( like choose a boss, remove the boss, ... )

make clear who set his vote already.

disable most of the commands for clients

this is what come to my mind from the first look
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Forboding Angel
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 Mar 2015, 08:49

Just a note... I'm not sure using me for a reference is a good idea. It seems that most of the problems I run into are a result of my own ineptitude.
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danil_kalina
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by danil_kalina » 03 Mar 2015, 08:54

Hi Angel) Glad to see you again, robust and unbaned.
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bibim
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by bibim » 03 Mar 2015, 12:32

danil_kalina wrote:i need to change text that SPADS sends to clients. for example to make poll works better, to automate it with a lobby. ( like choose a boss, remove the boss, ... )

make clear who set his vote already.
Vote messages are entirely customizable through the setVoteMsg plugin callback. You can see an example of this in the ZeroK plugin, where I customized SPADS vote messages entirely to mimic Springie ones, so that SPADS vote system is entirely integrated with ZK lobby and Zero-K in game.
danil_kalina wrote:disable most of the commands for clients
You don't need to hack SPADS core for that lol, you just need to remove the commands from the config file commands.conf.
danil_kalina wrote:this is what come to my mind from the first look
So that's what you meant with "a disaster for our hosts"?
I still don't get why you preferred going the hard way hacking SPADS internals instead of simply editing a config file and using a dedicated customization function...
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Jools
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by Jools » 03 Mar 2015, 14:45

Maybe I can answer, as I also in the beginning hacked spads.pl to allow for the semprini command (kicks out players who say semprini).

It is easier to hack than to make a plugin, I suppose the reason is that it is easier to change something existing than to write new stuff if you are not familiar with perl.

But yes plugins are more robust of course: I had to paste in the hack code in each update and later I just didn't have the energy to do so.

I must say that spads is very flexible with the plugins once you understand the API. Perl is maybe not the easiest language but it works just as well as e.g. lua once you get past the first hurdles.
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bibim
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Re: About obsolete SPADS on NOTA autohosts (autoupdate disab

Post by bibim » 03 Mar 2015, 16:01

Jools wrote:Maybe I can answer, as I also in the beginning hacked spads.pl to allow for the semprini command (kicks out players who say semprini).

It is easier to hack than to make a plugin, I suppose the reason is that it is easier to change something existing than to write new stuff if you are not familiar with perl.
That's exactly the reason why I wrote SPADS plugin templates, so that you just need to change something existing instead of writing the plugins from scratch (cf SPADS plugin development tutorials).

Hacking a program internally when it offers all the required functionalities through a documented plugin interface is really a bad choice imo, but I guess it's the problem with interpreted languages. Users are too tempted to do it the wrong way...
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