Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play - Page 3

Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 17 Jul 2012, 12:10

Koshi and BD are developing a ladder system (with multiple ladders) for spring. The project seems dormant though. Maybe a collaboration or code sharing is possible:
http://ladder.springrts.com/
https://github.com/renemilk/spring-ladder
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tzaeru
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by tzaeru » 17 Jul 2012, 12:25

Well, it's possible scenario that taking the time to understand others' code takes more than coding it from scratch, since there really isn't many things needed. There's just the algorithm and getting match outcomes from the SPADS bot (or extra bot joining the battle)

But I'll certainly look into it anyway, thanks. :-)

What's indeed a good idea though, is having the bot be on multiple servers for better calibration of individual skill. I'm really considering Glicko over plain ELO though, since Glicko has it's "uncertainty modifier". The extra bit of "guessing" space gives a better chance to do quality games on average, since single person can't as easily get to the best desirable team as he would on standard ELO; There'd basically be a random factor in balancing for big games, and this is good.
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NOiZE
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by NOiZE » 25 Aug 2012, 19:13

lol, u say ppl still play 1v1 BA?
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tzaeru
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by tzaeru » 04 Sep 2012, 16:49

NOiZE wrote:lol, u say ppl still play 1v1 BA?
Yeah, quite a lot actually, I've a few 1v1 matches basically every day I happen to be playing. :P

They're a lot more fun nowadays than some years back, I feel balance in general is a lot better in certain respects.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Rumpelstiltskin » 04 Sep 2012, 16:55

:roll:
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Griffith
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Griffith » 21 Sep 2012, 01:02

New tourney, new elo ratings !

Image
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Rumpelstiltskin » 21 Sep 2012, 01:10

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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tzaeru
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by tzaeru » 23 Sep 2012, 02:29

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Huh?
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 05 Oct 2012, 00:39

Griffith: what k-factor do you use?

I added Elo calculation of matches to http://replays.springrts.com/ but even players with lots of matches and very good win/loss ratio don't climb up more than 1570, having started at 1500. I use a static k-factor of 24. Checkout http://replays.springrts.com/hall_of_fame/ and players individual pages (click on a players name).

Your numbers and mine don't coincide, because most of the matches you take into account have not been uploaded, and most of the matches I use are not tournament matches.

If you wish, in the future you could use the site to make the math. You'd need to make sure all matches are uploaded (happens automagically on [ACE], [BOS], [x]TheHost, Princess and Spads hosts), and tag them somehow special, so they can be separated from the others. Then a dedicated "1v1 BA tourney" rating would be no problem.

We can make a test run with the next tourney. I'll set the Elo values of all players to yours, and we'll see what happens after the uploading of the replays of the tourney.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Rumpelstiltskin » 05 Oct 2012, 07:10

tzaeru wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Huh?
Jazcash is #1...
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Jazcash
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Jazcash » 05 Oct 2012, 12:29

Image
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Griffith
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Griffith » 05 Oct 2012, 20:40

dansan wrote:Griffith: what k-factor do you use?
I used K=30 with only the tournaments games. Since you use a lower value for K that could explain the fact you have lower elo as mine.
dansan wrote:I added Elo calculation of matches to http://replays.springrts.com/ but even players with lots of matches and very good win/loss ratio don't climb up more than 1570, having started at 1500. I use a static k-factor of 24. Checkout http://replays.springrts.com/hall_of_fame/ and players individual pages (click on a players name).
Awesome work ! :shock:
Amazing, this will be so usefull :-)

Could you try with K=30 to see if there are a lot of difference ?
I made the calcul manually on few games compare to you. Maximum number of games for a player was around 40 or 50.
dansan wrote: Your numbers and mine don't coincide, because most of the matches you take into account have not been uploaded, and most of the matches I use are not tournament matches.

If you wish, in the future you could use the site to make the math. You'd need to make sure all matches are uploaded (happens automagically on [ACE], [BOS], [x]TheHost, Princess and Spads hosts), and tag them somehow special, so they can be separated from the others. Then a dedicated "1v1 BA tourney" rating would be no problem.

We can make a test run with the next tourney. I'll set the Elo values of all players to yours, and we'll see what happens after the uploading of the replays of the tourney.
Ok i will take a look at it for the next tourney.

Again amazing stuff ! :o
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 07 Oct 2012, 22:25

Griffith wrote:Could you try with K=30 to see if there are a lot of difference ?
I'll do that tomorrow.
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 28 Oct 2012, 23:54

I made a dedicated rating category "1v1 BA tournament", and seeded the players with your latest (21 Sep 2012, 01:02) Elo values: http://replays.springrts.com/ba1v1tourney/

Tomorrow I'll run the rating() on those matches: http://replays.springrts.com/tag/Tourney/ (from today and the final). I hope those replays are complete...

I'll leave the k-factor at 30 for everyone. You do it like that too?

We should have the same results after that... :)
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Griffith
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Griffith » 29 Oct 2012, 01:28

I keep k=30 too.

I post my result (before the final, i will upgrade when tourney is done).
Hope we will have same elo.

Image

Teddy and GG elo will be upgraded after their final.
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 30 Oct 2012, 16:02

Calculations ran, but results are different... hmm... any idea why?

You can see the ratings of the players on each matches page. The value are the Elo after the match.
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Griffith
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by Griffith » 30 Oct 2012, 22:10

Ratings after tourney

Image

I have an idea why our elo are not exactly the same.
For all the calculation of a tourney i take the initial elo. For example player A has 1520 elo before the tourney. For all his matchs i will take 1520.

Maybe you take the new elo as a base for new calculation:
Player A has 1520 elo before tourney. First game he loose, get new elo of 1510. Next game you take his elo of 1510 to calculate.
I take for whole tourney 1520 for player A.

Maybe this can explain the difference ?
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 31 Oct 2012, 10:40

I do it exactly like you describe... is that wrong? Uh.. I have to read up on that...
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tzaeru
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by tzaeru » 31 Oct 2012, 12:05

dansan wrote:I do it exactly like you describe... is that wrong? Uh.. I have to read up on that...
In a way it is wrong.

You're supposed to adjust the Elo after a tournament, not during it, in the original system.
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dansan
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Re: Elo ranking for BA 1v1 competitive play

Post by dansan » 31 Oct 2012, 12:33

Ah yeah... just found this: wikipedia/Elo_rating_system#Live_ratings

Sigh... I'll have to rewrite that rating function, and think about how I'll handle all the uploads...

I guess I'll do it exactly as it's done in chess: I'll maintain an official rating updated once a month (or every 2nd week) and live ratings in between. They will get reset to the official rating each month.

... and ofc the tourney ratings apart as well :)
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