Thought [on web page]

[knorke]

Flozi:
yes, I am pretty sure we are using wiki "wrong" atm.
eg I think the color stuff

<font color=#55ee99>blabla</font>

on some pages
( http://springrts.com/wiki/LuaCallinReturn ) should be templates or <span> or something like that.
I do not know in detail how to do it better but wikipedia pages hardly look so choatic (the source)
---
on wordpress:
I am sure it is possible to make a good website with wordpress.
I just have not seen it happen for a spring related site

The BA site and the Evo site are prepackaged themes with a handful of minor modifications. My site is old and already has a replacement lined up.

Yes, I am reminded of those terrible terrible homepage-generators from geocities and such.
Except instead of lame animated email-me gifs

you have a million +1 buttons:

(I only removed the space between the elements so the image is smaller)

I also cringe whenever I see the butchered images:


Or the autogenerated links for keywords on the evo site.
Or the meaningless tag clouds

actuality, amount, arc, attempt, best guess, briefing, campaign, center, conglomeration, consuming, control, crusade, Desura, evo, evolution, example, feature, few days, ...

(actually list is 3x as big, no joke)

So I am not anti-wordpress (except for wiki) but anti-wordpress-how-it-is-currently-used-on-spring-pages. Please do not repeat those mistakes.

[Jazcash]

This is the exact, one and only reason I have never contributed to the wiki.

Except you did.
And you even used formating and lists and stuff. And hey, even emmanuel managed.

That was just editing an existing article. I haven't and wouldn't be able to create an article from scratch unless I did a lot of looking up and copying.

Jazcash: I don't mean to offend, but if the wiki is predominantly for content & engine development documentation (and it is) - what will you contribute?

These days yes, but back when the Wiki used to be about everything Spring related I would've created my guides on there for one thing. Also tried to make a directory for a bunch of Spring links once when Beherith suggested that instead of a forum topic, it was just tedious though, even compared to BB code.

No offence taken btw, I have very little to contribute towards engine documentation.

[smoth]

doesn't the tinyMCE thing output wikiformated output?

[FLOZi]

eg I think the color stuff
Quote:
<font color=#55ee99>blabla</font>
on some pages
( http://springrts.com/wiki/LuaCallinReturn ) should be templates or <span> or something like that.

Yeah, Argh started that page, it is deficient in many ways IMO. There are 'warning' and 'note' classes for <span>'s that should be used.

Jazcash: I don't mean to offend, but if the wiki is predominantly for content & engine development documentation (and it is) - what will you contribute?

These days yes, but back when the Wiki used to be about everything Spring related I would've created my guides on there for one thing. Also tried to make a directory for a bunch of Spring links once when Beherith suggested that instead of a forum topic, it was just tedious though, even compared to BB code.

No offence taken btw, I have very little to contribute towards engine documentation.

I think this is the real point, as we move towards 'seperation of church and state' (devs and players; so far as focus of wiki, site and forums is concerned), the wiki syntax is less relevant than the active number of developers of both flavours. (Tobi, abma, jk, kloot, hoijui all edit the wiki and on the content side at least myself, knorke and smoth)

[AF]

EvolutionRTS

I've pointed these things out to forboding, there are various things on that site I'm not fond at all of, the google search bar being a case in point, but its his site and I've no say in it. He will at least listen though, and I've persuaded him to make various other changes, but at the end of the day he is allowed to disagree

BA site

I can't comment too greatly on the work of WP-Bakery. It's not what I would have chosen, but Beherith appears pleased by the outcome, and A site is better than none.

Darkstars

My bluestars theme is outdated and represents a dead end. I'm no longer fond of the blueprint CSS framework it's built around, and my skill level in that area has moved on with leaps and bounds in comparison to the internals of that theme. I consider the path its development was taking to be a dead end. For example, those butchered images you highlighted are autogenerated via a flavour of timthumb, a script I abhor. While the site does support the superior WordPress 3 featured images API, most of the content lacks it. The projects section is not befitting of some of the work I've built either.

I've made quite a few changes lately to streamline things somewhat, and I have 3 or 4 development sites behind the scenes for experimentation to determine exactly how tomjn.com will be built and the form it will take. However it's to be expected that a theme started in 2006/7 will not be upto scratch.

Tags

SpringInfo before I took an active interest autogenerated the tags as new posts where made, Forboding clearly didn't have the time or the will to sit and tag every single post, and these are the consequences.

The new system of post aggregation allows for a different paradigm of tagging and categorisation, but the damage is already done. The problem is not 'fixed' but it will not be getting any worse

[Forboding Angel]

Oh for fucks sake AF you make it sound like it's such a big deal and that you did something oh so amazing. All you had to do was just comment out (or hide via css) the tag clouds. If you remember, I was the one complaining about the tag clouds in that theme because tag clouds look like shit and imo serve no purpose beyond SEO.

Wrt, the evo site, the google search is there so that you can find anything on the site quickly and easily, plus it fits in quite nicely.

Also, knorke, your image is full of shit and a complete misrepresentation:

AWMAGAWD WHAT IS WEEZ GONNA DO????

[gajop]

Image
AWMAGAWD WHAT IS WEEZ GONNA DO????

not vote evorts the indie game of the year!

[Forboding Angel]

hehehe true story

[smoth]

doesn't the tinyMCE thing output wikiformated output?

[knorke]

I haven't and wouldn't be able to create an article from scratch unless I did a lot of looking up and copying.

Most editing is on existing articles. Add a missing parameter, correct broken link, is still helpful blabla.
Imo is also okay to start a new page without any formating and then ask how to make it nicer. If you made a page that explains every weapondef variable and only need somebody to color some words I might do that...

back when the Wiki used to be about everything Spring related I would've created my guides on there for one thing.

It seems many put their guides on the wiki and now there is stuff like this flying around: http://springrts.com/wiki/Spring_for_RTS_Players
Stuff that everybody expected to be "relevant for all spring games, forever" is not true anymore with games doing their own UIs, adding new hotkeys and removing old ones. Even camera controll is not the same among all mods anymore.
So "game guides" should imo always be on the respective games page.

---

Also, knorke, your image is full of shit and a complete misrepresentation:

The point is there are too many "web 2.0 buttons" (dont know a better word)
In fact I missed another facebook button, google+ and RSS feed at top of page. When every article and every subpage has some buttons then it is overweb. Help I am being overwebed!

ps: sign my guestbook

[marciolino]

I can't comment too greatly on the work of WP-Bakery...

Code: Select all

...and I've persuaded him to make various other changes

My bluestars theme is outdated and represents a dead end...

Oh for fucks sake AF you make it sound like it's such a big deal and that you did something oh so amazing...

Oh if some people on this forum stop commenting, criticizing, jealous-izing, and start doing something it would change everything.
All this time used on posting non-consistent critics about the others work is waste of time.
I see a lot of personal tastes, people saying i like it, i dont like it, but also I like you, I don't like you, bla bla bla.

Work together and cooperate there is nothing to do with filling pages and pages on this forum. To what? To say nothing. It won't improve a project, just create bad relations in the community.

To design a good website you need a good webdesigner, so if you are one stop talking and do it.
Come here to get a feed a back, to improve things after, but do it before.

And if you have a critic, think before if it is just a personal taste or if it really a consistent problem. Is there are personal interests? If yes dont post it. If it really deserves to be shared, share it but do it well and respectfully.

I am sure it is possible to make a good website with wordpress.
I just have not seen it happen for a spring related site

Wordpress IS a powerful CMS. A WP website can be good or bad, it depends only on the frontend design but there is definitely nothing to do with WP.

[smoth]

I don't care about wp being the outer site but don't try to tell me it is better than wiki for documentation.

[AF]

marciolino

I did. I redesigned the logo twice, built 3 replacement sites, made adjustments to this site, refreshed springinfo, a lot of tools and experiments, and quite a few other things. I did stuff, some of it worked, some of it didn't, and I admitted it. We've all had our humble pie here at times, maybe you should take a bite? =]

And forb, I mentioned those because Kaiser mentioned them, my point was that you don't always agree on changes but you have made some in the past. They are valid criticisms though, that google searchbar is afflicted with blind banner syndrome, it needs restyling or moving. Your social icons also suffer from ambiguity, am I +1'ing this post, this site, or the game? Is this facebook like button for sharing the post, or is it that one there? Or are they both for liking the evorts page? This +1 button is here on its own but the others are at the side, is it different somehow?

As long as that ambiguity remains it will greatly reduce the effectiveness of any 'social media' elements on your pages, and you will struggle to notice (it's not ambiguous to you, as you were the one who put them there, so you're innately blind to the issue).

As for tags, they have a purpose, and old content is poorly tagged. Don't blame me for not going through 2 years of posts and manually detagging them when I mention it was caused by an auto tagging plugin you installed for perfectly reasonable reasons. You had an idea, you implemented it, and after years of it running the outcome isn't liked. You tried but it wasn't good enough, and now we have a new system to try, I dont understand what the big deal is?