Units OUT of the map! :O

[Gigamez]

Today i watched a game and i have seen a strange "tactic".
[SoS]ingleBar has sent brawlers out of the map to destoy the enemy's base and avoid any defences.
He won the game, but it's my opinion that is cheating. It's true?

We were in the Loet server and there were many Loets in. [Loet]Lampe not only refused to kick him from the battle, but he also tell us that it's a normal tactic allowed by spring. The disappoint of many players wasn't heard and [Loet]Lampe started to mocking them expecially [iTA] players.

With this post i want to ask to the community the opinion about it.

in attachment you could see the replay to support my opinion (at about 22 - 23 mins).

Thanks to all! :)

[Johannes]

It's possible to do in the game and I have seen no formal rules against it so no, it's not cheating.

[Wombat]

old, spring admins dont care anyway

[FLOZi]

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=44

[SeanHeron]

old, spring admins dont care anyway

He's not asking what admins think.

FLOZi is right though, you should ask this (or maybe moderator can move this) to BA subforum.

[bobthedinosaur]

make a gadget to prevent so much movement outside.

[MidKnight]

Hasn't it already been done, whatwith Moor and all?

[Johannes]

Hasn't it already been done, whatwith Moor and all?

What has been done ?

Sounds like you don't understand what he means.

[babbles]

Why should it be moved to the BA forum? He's asking the community of Spring wether they perceive moving units outside of the map on purpose is frowned upon, known about or even praised. He merely used BA as an example of where he saw it.

[FLOZi]

Still very much a BA example though?

In S44 you can't move units outside the map, well, yeah, you could move aircraft outside perhaps but they are only available for so long per sortie so it isn't a valid tactic.

It's only an issue in TA based games, that I am aware of. And his example specifically was BA. Therefore it belongs in the BA subforum, regardless of any other arguments.

[Johannes]

It is a relevant question in any game with planes with slowish turning speed. Of course for different games you can come to different conclusions if it's desirable behavior or not. But as for now it cannot be considered cheating in any game ofc.

[BaNa]

I am not going to watch the re, anybody care to elaborate on how the brawlers where moved? was it just skimming down the sides of the map?

AFAIK using the peeper exploit to wreck games will earn you a ban. Then again, if the host said it was ok, it was probably not that kind of exploit.

[Pxtl]

Never actually seen this tactic, although its possibility is obvious considering the movement of units... but it's a brawler thing? I'd have thought the wide turning-circles of bombers would be more common for this.

[babbles]

Still very much a BA example though?

In S44 you can't move units outside the map, well, yeah, you could move aircraft outside perhaps but they are only available for so long per sortie so it isn't a valid tactic.

It's only an issue in TA based games, that I am aware of. And his example specifically was BA. Therefore it belongs in the BA subforum, regardless of any other arguments.

That's the worst logic ever. Are you saying for an issue to be raised, a tactic highlighted or a topic discussed it has to be relevant, and completly relevant, to all mods in Spring? Is that what you're saying? "It isn't in my mod, so it should be in a subforum for one of the mods".

Although I admit it may have been better placed in "Games Lobby" or even possibly the Bugs section, just because this tactic isn't consistently used in your mod doesn't mean it shouldn't be in this forum.

If he had seen it in XTA and BA which would should he put it in? Maybe it's in more than these two mods, so how do people from these other mods know about it? Maybe he thinks it's a Spring issue, not mod dependant.

You say that it's only a TA issue, that you're aware of, can you conclusivly say this? Have you tested every mod to be able to say this? What if it's a valid tactic in the majority of mods? What if S44 is one of the few mods it isn't a valid tactic? Would this not mean it's better to post it in plain view than distinguish between the mods posting in their sub forums?

He used an example of BA, but it could have been from multiple other mods. He thought it was something to do with Spring and was asking the community as a whole if going outside of the map was valid and if he'd stumbled upon a potential bug. Yes, he was primarily talking about BA, yes he primarily used BA as his example and yes, he found the problem with BA. But this does not mean the problem lies only in BA nor does it mean he was asking only the BA community.

[knorke]

for those who didnt watch the replay but still want to post in this thread:

Its not just a problem in TA-based mods. (inb4 hurdur game XY has no planes)

It is a relevant question in any game with planes with slowish turning speed.

No. These units have instant turn speed:


Imo its an engine bug and somebody who knows how to reliablely reproduce it should report it at http://springrts.com/mantis/
Its not something the mod makers should have to fix with a gadget.

Technically it isnt cheating but bug-abuse. If using this bug is "clever and thinking outside of the box" or "totally lame and should be banned" depends on who you ask. ie if they won or lost to it

[babbles]

thinking outside of the box

I see what you did there.

[BaNa]

its being a dick and deserves an ip ban. he used the peeper trick.

to clarify: this is in no way a "smart and okay" way to use the system, it is writing a widget that exploits bugs to make your units invulnerable. It is on par with specmonkeying or rewriting your spring so you see everything. I am surprised the host was tolerant of it, most hosts I know ban on sight for this kind of bullshit. Maybe a friend of his was doing it.

[Gigamez]

Why should it be moved to the BA forum? He's asking the community of Spring wether they perceive moving units outside of the map on purpose is frowned upon, known about or even praised. He merely used BA as an example of where he saw it.

yes, i want only the opinion of the community about this behavior in general. If this is the wrong section i kindly ask to the moderators to move this topic into the right place! :)

[abma]

it was already on mantis: http://springrts.com/mantis/view.php?id=2360
(but private...)

IMO this is not cheating, its a engine bug. for not reporting, he should be banned, not for using it

[AF]

Im sure commands given outside the map were made invalid ages ago when this very problem arose, I must be going cuckoo