permissions please. while ur at it, can i have uploading capability for lua posts/you do not have significant priveleges to view thil file.
Spring Site 2
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Spring Site 2
Re: Spring Site 2
Whoa... um... ok, so what about the 100 or so documentation pages we have, that are actually useful to some degree? Meh, this needs to get explored. I've checked it over, but I haven't edited anything yet- would I be correct in stating that porting over the stuff like the Lua References, etc., would be relatively straightforward?WARNING:: Do not copy directly from the old spring wiki. The old spring wiki is out of date, innaccurate, poorly structured, and the syntax is not 100% compatible. Old spring wiki pages copy pasted will either lead to broken formatting of wiki pages, incorrect instructions, and I really think the wiki as it is needs rebuilding. Remember the site IS the wiki, so do not lump huge quantities of text in a page and call it finished, and make sure you use namespaces/categories.
Re: Spring Site 2
I agree with the toolbar comment, which is why I removed the toolbar at the top and put the buttons in the bottom toolbar. I think perhaps changing the buttons to just an icon and text so they're less invasive would do the trick.
There is also a dokuwiki hack to integrate the phpbb user base back end but it looked complicated and wasn't necessary for full functionality, and ideally I want to minimize modifications to phpbb to make maintenance and updates to phpbb easier.
Regarding formatting and fancy gfx, you can either use the dokuwiki syntax, or, you can use <html> and <php> tags although these arent turned on everywhere by default.
sinbad and neddie, you now have admin status on the wiki. Ill enable <html> tags across the whole wiki so people can make front pages and show them here without having to modify the main page or wait for other people to stop hogging it.
I have also removed ~20pixels of padding and margin between the header and the main content in the css.
There is also a dokuwiki hack to integrate the phpbb user base back end but it looked complicated and wasn't necessary for full functionality, and ideally I want to minimize modifications to phpbb to make maintenance and updates to phpbb easier.
Regarding formatting and fancy gfx, you can either use the dokuwiki syntax, or, you can use <html> and <php> tags although these arent turned on everywhere by default.
sinbad and neddie, you now have admin status on the wiki. Ill enable <html> tags across the whole wiki so people can make front pages and show them here without having to modify the main page or wait for other people to stop hogging it.
I have also removed ~20pixels of padding and margin between the header and the main content in the css.
Re: Spring Site 2
To be honest, I totally agree with AF and the other guys with regards to infrastructure over design any day of the week, but then I think most would.
It is important though that from the outset you have a well defined idea of what you want the site to look like at least. The old phrase "Content is King" is more important than it ever was these days though!
It is important though that from the outset you have a well defined idea of what you want the site to look like at least. The old phrase "Content is King" is more important than it ever was these days though!
Re: Spring Site 2
Can we see an example of this in action?Regarding formatting and fancy gfx, you can either use the dokuwiki syntax, or, you can use <html> and <php> tags although these arent turned on everywhere by default.
And are we going to have a proper graphical banner with buttons, or not? The text-only display in the upper-right-hand corner is not really doing it for me- during the contest, both designs featured much stronger button layouts, which I think that all parties agree is much more effective than minimalist text.
I'd like if you could code an area where a banner and buttons can go, specify the size of the area in pixels XY, and let an artist give it a go. That'd be the first real step forward, for integrating RoflCopter's design elements and visual elements into the 'site as a whole, imo.
Re: Spring Site 2
roflcopter could either put his front-page into a wiki page inside the existing template or create a brand new template from scratch.
This could be done using any arbitrary install of dokuwiki, so my version of the site is not needed, and it is not a complex thing.
It does as it says. Put <html> tags in and stick html inside the tags, its that simple. Everything inside is printed as is on the wiki page as html markup instead of being converted into plain text.
The same would be true of <php>
There is a large body of documentation on dokuwiki syntax and how to use various tags.
This could be done using any arbitrary install of dokuwiki, so my version of the site is not needed, and it is not a complex thing.
Code: Select all
<html> <b>my</b> <i>html</i><br>text</html>The same would be true of <php>
Code: Select all
<php>
if(true){
echo "hello wiki world!";
}
</php>Re: Spring Site 2
I did not say roflcopters design couldnt be put in I simply said he had two options
A: Build his front-page inside my template as the frontpage
B: Create a new template implementing his design.
I fail to see where I said he could not do anything regarding his design.
I would also stress the point that the push for roflcopters design is in danger of derailing this effort by delaying the replacement of this old site we're using now, which in turn puts the whole thing in danger.
We have seen this before, it happened to my previous website, and its pretty much happened to tim blodjiks website, and its happened to all the logo threads, and its happened to the banner replacement threads. Your all looking for the ultimate entry, and as a result your ignoring content which is better than what you already have, which isn't very hard to beat as it is, instead of accepting that content and then continuing the search for even better stuff.
Right now the only question you should be asking is whether my setup is better than the current setup. When you have an answer act upon it and then start the whole process again with other designs such as roflcopters once they've matured. Otherwise we could be stuck with a backwards design for years to come.
I've handed you all a working website that can do almost all the things that people have complained they wanted in the current site, don't turn it down because someone posted some pretty images and a mock up of something else.
In the mean time, to those people who do not like how it looks atm, try putting content in it with flashy images, or porting roflcopters design so it fits into the frontpage. I wont look identical but the vast majority of his work can fit into the wiki page. Once there is content on the site it should look a lot prettier.
You would all think roflcopters design was far less impressive if you saw it with no content or flashy screenshots like you have mine.
hmmm a strategic post edit by argh
A: Build his front-page inside my template as the frontpage
B: Create a new template implementing his design.
I fail to see where I said he could not do anything regarding his design.
I would also stress the point that the push for roflcopters design is in danger of derailing this effort by delaying the replacement of this old site we're using now, which in turn puts the whole thing in danger.
We have seen this before, it happened to my previous website, and its pretty much happened to tim blodjiks website, and its happened to all the logo threads, and its happened to the banner replacement threads. Your all looking for the ultimate entry, and as a result your ignoring content which is better than what you already have, which isn't very hard to beat as it is, instead of accepting that content and then continuing the search for even better stuff.
Right now the only question you should be asking is whether my setup is better than the current setup. When you have an answer act upon it and then start the whole process again with other designs such as roflcopters once they've matured. Otherwise we could be stuck with a backwards design for years to come.
I've handed you all a working website that can do almost all the things that people have complained they wanted in the current site, don't turn it down because someone posted some pretty images and a mock up of something else.
In the mean time, to those people who do not like how it looks atm, try putting content in it with flashy images, or porting roflcopters design so it fits into the frontpage. I wont look identical but the vast majority of his work can fit into the wiki page. Once there is content on the site it should look a lot prettier.
You would all think roflcopters design was far less impressive if you saw it with no content or flashy screenshots like you have mine.
hmmm a strategic post edit by argh
Re: Spring Site 2
The visual artists around here are potential creative partners, not antagonists. Competition ensures that only those who are non-lazy enough to actually put in some work get a shot... so run another competition, get people going, give the artists some specs to follow, and a layout that they can see.
All I'm trying to say here is not that we should seek perfection, which I think is completely impossible- somebody's going to whine and cry, no matter what is done- but that we should have something that delivers a result that's reasonable on delivery. Since we have consensus about RoflCopter's design... meh, what's the harm of talking about how it, or something like it, could be implemented, using your technology? It'd be a lot more productive than any further argument, imo, and puts us into a win-win situation here.
In short, instead of looking at this as something where you lose if you incorporate the visual design elements that were in the contest, look at it as stuff to draw upon here. That way we end up with something that's done, looks reasonably professional, and works, and can build from there.
All I'm trying to say here is not that we should seek perfection, which I think is completely impossible- somebody's going to whine and cry, no matter what is done- but that we should have something that delivers a result that's reasonable on delivery. Since we have consensus about RoflCopter's design... meh, what's the harm of talking about how it, or something like it, could be implemented, using your technology? It'd be a lot more productive than any further argument, imo, and puts us into a win-win situation here.
In short, instead of looking at this as something where you lose if you incorporate the visual design elements that were in the contest, look at it as stuff to draw upon here. That way we end up with something that's done, looks reasonably professional, and works, and can build from there.
Re: Spring Site 2
If there was consensus on roflcopters design then this site wouldn't exist.
Your also forgetting that when roflcopters design won its support, it didnt win it because it was amazingly better than the competition, it won it because there was no competition and it got it by default simply because its only competitor was the existing site which as we can see isnt much of a rival.
Your also forgetting that when roflcopters design won its support, it didnt win it because it was amazingly better than the competition, it won it because there was no competition and it got it by default simply because its only competitor was the existing site which as we can see isnt much of a rival.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Spring Site 2
Argh, to see theme type stuff in action, go to http://evolutionrts.info
All that is just a css with 2 images thrown in. Now imagine what you could do if you actually spent some real time on it.
All that is just a css with 2 images thrown in. Now imagine what you could do if you actually spent some real time on it.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Spring Site 2
speakinf of, if I had the source images, I could remake roflcopters design in all of a few minutes.
Re: Spring Site 2
If you can do that... well, gee, that pretty much takes care of that argument, doesn't it? All I'm saying is that I'm in favor of action that results in giving that design concept a go here. If it's really that easy, then we'll be able to quickly evaluate it once it's in play, and go from there if anybody builds more concepts.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: Spring Site 2
I'd very nearly veto rofl's site simply based on the fact that it's fixed width. Fixed width has been an immense thorn in our side here for a metric forever, I'd jump through pretty much any hoop to move away from it.
AF has built us a robust and effective back end that is WAY better then what we're currently using... on that basis alone I'm pretty close to ready to use it right away.
AF's site lacks a frontpage, we could either do it as a spash page and use a system similar to what we are doing in the current site, or we could build the splash page into AFs design.
Also, I don't know how receptive AF is, but I'd like to see more feedback on the astetics of the site. Not that the current site is amazing... AF's is as good IMO, but if the skin can be improved I'm all for that. I'm honestly not the biggest fan of white windows bordered in dark blue, but meh, it's easily tolerable.
AF has built us a robust and effective back end that is WAY better then what we're currently using... on that basis alone I'm pretty close to ready to use it right away.
AF's site lacks a frontpage, we could either do it as a spash page and use a system similar to what we are doing in the current site, or we could build the splash page into AFs design.
Also, I don't know how receptive AF is, but I'd like to see more feedback on the astetics of the site. Not that the current site is amazing... AF's is as good IMO, but if the skin can be improved I'm all for that. I'm honestly not the biggest fan of white windows bordered in dark blue, but meh, it's easily tolerable.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Re: Spring Site 2
I'm of the opinion that a sexy frontpage is *needed* far more then a highly functional site (not that the site shouldn't be functional, it's just not the element that deserves the most focus). For most intents and purposes, we have a reasonably functional site. What we need is to sell Spring, and sell the mods attached to it. Roflcopter's design has achieved that aim admirably.
Re: Spring Site 2
No, anyone can make a sexy front page, what we need is the backend that works, can be updated by the people that care, and is extendable. AF design fits that well. The front page is easy in comparison.
If we populated AF's site with the content of the current site and did nothing else it would already be an improvement on what we have. Adding a sexy front page is then something that will quickly happen afterwards.
Personly I think his look and feel is already loads cleaner than the current one. All it needs is tweeking (such as matching the PHPBB with te hblue of teh site a little better). Creating a more intresting banner/backdrop.
(BTW AF.. any reason teh home page buts to the left when nothing else does. That my only grip... its inconsitant.)
aGorm
If we populated AF's site with the content of the current site and did nothing else it would already be an improvement on what we have. Adding a sexy front page is then something that will quickly happen afterwards.
Personly I think his look and feel is already loads cleaner than the current one. All it needs is tweeking (such as matching the PHPBB with te hblue of teh site a little better). Creating a more intresting banner/backdrop.
(BTW AF.. any reason teh home page buts to the left when nothing else does. That my only grip... its inconsitant.)
aGorm
Re: Spring Site 2
I believe 60% of roflcopters design could be put into my template with the remaining 40% either being snipped because it is template/background stuff, or modified slightly.
I made my design keeping in mind that it would need to counter balance the content in the page being displayed, as such when viewing documentation it would not distract, nor would it interfere or conflict with other pages, which should be filled with colourful things anyway if they were done properly to begin with.
As such the emphasis is on what's being displayed not the stuff at the edge of the screen. But because at the moment the stuff on the screen is a sparse wiki page with no imagery, it doesn't reach anywhere near its full potential.
aGorm, it buts to the left because the homepage is larger than the other pages and so the browser adds scrollbars, and since the scrollbars shouldnt overlap with the content it downsizes the width of the site. You don't notice this on the current site because every single page has its own wall of text
I made my design keeping in mind that it would need to counter balance the content in the page being displayed, as such when viewing documentation it would not distract, nor would it interfere or conflict with other pages, which should be filled with colourful things anyway if they were done properly to begin with.
As such the emphasis is on what's being displayed not the stuff at the edge of the screen. But because at the moment the stuff on the screen is a sparse wiki page with no imagery, it doesn't reach anywhere near its full potential.
aGorm, it buts to the left because the homepage is larger than the other pages and so the browser adds scrollbars, and since the scrollbars shouldnt overlap with the content it downsizes the width of the site. You don't notice this on the current site because every single page has its own wall of text
Re: Spring Site 2
While a good backend is very important, don't discount the importance of a good frontend.
When I visit a site, and it's got really bad looking front page, I have a very (Very!) strong urge to just close the page.
The other big point is CLEAR navigation from one place to another on the site. Everything should be clearly labeled, and all the relevant pages should be easily accessible.
There's a good chance I never would have taken the time to work my way through the Spring site to download it and get everything working, if I hadn't been an old die-hard TA fan.
When I visit a site, and it's got really bad looking front page, I have a very (Very!) strong urge to just close the page.
The other big point is CLEAR navigation from one place to another on the site. Everything should be clearly labeled, and all the relevant pages should be easily accessible.
There's a good chance I never would have taken the time to work my way through the Spring site to download it and get everything working, if I hadn't been an old die-hard TA fan.
Re: Spring Site 2
For those who said it was impossible to put roflcopters design in my site:
http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/testfront1
It still needs some modifications, mainly adding css to override the style sheet and remove padding in the main container as well as setting the size of the 'you are here' and the tool bar at the bottom to 0px so they cant be seen.
It would be a good idea to in a second page change the colour of the white container to match the splash screen and then make the design stretcht o teh full width. As well as uploading the images to the wiki so they aren't leeching off of gnomes copy which I got the html from here:
http://forums.imperialwinter.com/spring/
http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/testfront1
It still needs some modifications, mainly adding css to override the style sheet and remove padding in the main container as well as setting the size of the 'you are here' and the tool bar at the bottom to 0px so they cant be seen.
It would be a good idea to in a second page change the colour of the white container to match the splash screen and then make the design stretcht o teh full width. As well as uploading the images to the wiki so they aren't leeching off of gnomes copy which I got the html from here:
http://forums.imperialwinter.com/spring/
Re: Spring Site 2
Awesome!AF wrote:For those who said it was impossible to put roflcopters design in my site:
http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/testfront1
It still needs some modifications, mainly adding css to override the style sheet and remove padding in the main container as well as setting the size of the 'you are here' and the tool bar at the bottom to 0px so they cant be seen.
It would be a good idea to in a second page change the colour of the white container to match the splash screen and then make the design stretcht o teh full width. As well as uploading the images to the wiki so they aren't leeching off of gnomes copy which I got the html from here:
http://forums.imperialwinter.com/spring/
Keep it up!