Firearms.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 04 Nov 2007, 02:54

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/pics/taser.jpg

Shoots a dart into the target and electrifies via a wire attached to the dart.

Maybe you meant wireless as in without the dart and wire, but meh.

KingRaptor · Post by **KingRaptor** » 04 Nov 2007, 02:58

lol wireless taser

go invent one

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Nov 2007, 02:58

In Canada we have marijuana syndrome hardcore with weapons. You're allowed to buy and own guns, but tazers are restricted like no tomorrow.

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 04 Nov 2007, 03:01

KingRaptor wrote:lol wireless taser

go invent one

Already done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StunStrike

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 04 Nov 2007, 03:03

Bit powerful eh...

10^8 and 10^9 volts...

To kill or incapacitate a human target through electrocution.

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 04 Nov 2007, 03:07

I should think a low power, civilian version could be made.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Nov 2007, 04:21

so why are we talking about guns in the -------?

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Nov 2007, 09:15

Because we were talking about guns in the ------- in #main and deci thought it would scare the women and children so he moved it to a thread

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 04 Nov 2007, 10:04

Snipawolf wrote:Bit powerful eh...

10^8 and 10^9 volts...

To kill or incapacitate a human target through electrocution.

Meh, as long as the amperage is low enough

Moar volts == moar hurt
Moar amps == moar deep fry

A high voltage generally wont kill you without a sufficient source of current (liek 5-10 mA is enough if it goes across your body), it will just hurt like hell.

Personal experience from my potato cannons spark strip

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 04 Nov 2007, 12:14

SwiftSpear wrote:
Sleksa wrote:From my perspective i see no reason for civilians to posess firearms other than as a hunting/sport equipment.

As a standard, a man committing a burglary does not deserve a death sentence,IMO. So why should you be allowed to act as a judge in a burglary situation?
You don't. A burler on your property has clear ill intent, you're simply granted the right to protect yourself and your family. The burglar forfeit's his right to protection by the state when he undertakes an act of aggression against another person, and he does not regain his right until he has rescinded his presence from the property of his victim.

It's not so much that you're granted the right to kill another person for their crimes, it's that you're granted the right to protect yourself on your property by any means necessary, and this is maintained because it's assumed that the burglar is just as likely to have a firearm as you are, so the citizen must be equipped and cleared to use whatever tool is going to effectively stop the assault.

[edit]If it can be proved you successfully stopped the offender and then continued on to murder them you can still be tried for murder under US law. You aren't allowed to kill people simply because they come on your property.

There is something fishy about this... so why not just use non-leathal Tools for Self Defense. Why guns with leadbeans? And Selfdefense only acounts if the burgler attacks you- just attack on property is not even a reason for wounding someone..

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 04 Nov 2007, 12:15

Sleksa wrote:As a standard, a man committing a burglary does not deserve a death sentence,IMO. So why should you be allowed to act as a judge in a burglary situation?

Here's a question for you.

If there is a stranger who has invaded your home, how do you know what his intentions are? How can you be absolutely sure he only wants to steal your TV and bid you adieu? What if he to, say, hit you over the head with a crowbar so that you can't report him to the police? At what point do you have the right to defend yourself? At what point do you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force?

Also, by your standards, I'm qualified to talk about guns, as I have fired rifles and handguns multiple times before including a two-week rifle training course which comprised of safety, gun handling, gun maintenance, and firing training. I intend to obtain a concealed carry license (CCL) when I turn 21, the minimum age for it. At that point I fully intend to carry a handgun with me whenever I'm able to.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Nov 2007, 13:24

PicassoCT wrote:There is something fishy about this... so why not just use non-leathal Tools for Self Defense. Why guns with leadbeans? And Selfdefense only acounts if the burgler attacks you- just attack on property is not even a reason for wounding someone..

A: Because nonlethal tools aren't generally as effective as lethal tools, and the intruder may be using lethal tools.
B: Nonlethal tools are more strictly metered away from consumers
C: I have to wait until I've been shot before I can shoot back? Someone criminally entering my property is already expressing clear disregard for my person and property. I shouldn't be obligated to trust them to respect my right to personal security when they have already shown a total disregard for my legal rights. You're still not supposed to kill the guy in cold blood, but he's already violating the law, he can't be trusted to just do his thing and be allowed to leave, he's a direct threat to my personhood based on the violations he's already committed.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 04 Nov 2007, 18:29

At that point I fully intend to carry a handgun with me whenever I'm able to.

if i were the officer who would be judging you i would give a no just for this sentence, mr scwarzenegger.

If there is a stranger who has invaded your home, how do you know what his intentions are? How can you be absolutely sure he only wants to steal your TV and bid you adieu? What if he to, say, hit you over the head with a crowbar so that you can't report him to the police? At what point do you have the right to defend yourself? At what point do you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force?

what is the percentage of murders commited during burglary compared to burglaries that did not end with murder?

What is the percentage of any burglaries where the victim has been At the scene during the burglary?

For the record i do not know any cases in finland where the burglars have also committed murder during the time they've invaded someone's home.

Theyre not retarded manicidial killers with assault rifles for fuck's sake, theyre men just like you. And theyre there to commit burglary, not murder.

Also i say again, what gives you the power and authority to act as the police and the judge in the situation? a death of someone else is a thing you cannot revert, hence why modern "civilized" nations do not use death penalty.

The day when you choose to take a irreplaceable life of another human over losing some personal property that can be replaced is the day you become the criminal, IMO.

You don't. A burler on your property has clear ill intent, you're simply granted the right to protect yourself and your family. The burglar forfeit's his right to protection by the state when he undertakes an act of aggression against another person, and he does not regain his right until he has rescinded his presence from the property of his victim.

The burglar forfeits his right to protection, and that means that he becomes a free target and you can just end his life as you see fit?

It's not so much that you're granted the right to kill another person for their crimes, it's that you're granted the right to protect yourself on your property by any means necessary

Read; its not that youre granted to kill another person, but mortally wounding him is ok, as long as you DIDNT MEAN TO kill him, but rather to scare him away from your house by applying a bullet into his body ;[

Zpock · Post by **Zpock** » 04 Nov 2007, 18:38

Theyre not retarded manicidial killers with assault rifles for fuck's sake, theyre men just like you. And theyre there to commit burglary, not murder.

rofl the burglar is a decent fellow just like the guy he's robbing, honestly earning his daily bread. GOD GAAAD if someone unwelcomely tries to stop him, depriving him of his right to make a living.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 04 Nov 2007, 18:41

Zpock wrote:
Theyre not retarded manicidial killers with assault rifles for fuck's sake, theyre men just like you. And theyre there to commit burglary, not murder.
rofl the burglar is a decent fellow just like the guy he's robbing, honestly earning his daily bread. GOD GAAAD if someone unwelcomely tries to stop him, depriving him of his right to make a living.

he's a criminal, but he is still also a Human being.

and god forbid if he tries to take my ipod ill scatter his fucking brains all over the road for the fucker he is

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 04 Nov 2007, 19:26

KingRaptor wrote:lol wireless taser

go invent one

There is one which launches a Battery - and they are working on improvin induction.. especially to support Notebooks.. so all you finall need is a shootable Atenna.. the Energy may even be supplied by your local hotspot

@ Swiftspear: I am sorry - if i missunderstood that, but you take a social climate of misstrust for natural that is simply no longer related to (statistically proven) reality. Just because tv shows 24 hours a day burglery with guns, this isn├é┬┤t the statisticall truth. The usual thief is your neighbour longing for some Tool or Gadget he cant afford... so why shooting your neightborhood - just because Fox says it is right ?

PS: Most Murders happen out of intense feelings, drugs, rage.. by people who are beyond any controll already. So the Fear scares them off argument is also not counting...

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 04 Nov 2007, 20:30

Sleksa wrote: The burglar forfeits his right to protection, and that means that he becomes a free target and you can just end his life as you see fit?

The burglar didn't have to forcefully and illegally invade your home. He wasn't forced to. He had a clear choice: live by the law and stay safe, or go around invading peoples' homes and put himself in danger of the owners' protection of themselves.

Please, don't give me any bullshit about society/capitalism forcing the burglar to turn to crime to support himself. Making the criminal the victim doesn't work. Might as well say that rapists are victims because clearly the target wanted to be raped, heck she was showing cleavage in public!

Basically, by illegally breaking and entering, the burglar forfeits his right to protection by the government against force, including lethal force, by the property owner or residents. Or, to put it simply, if he don't wanna get shot at, he can go get a real job.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Nov 2007, 21:27

The thing is, I'm not so much concerned that the guy might have the intent of murdering me when he breaks in, I'm more concerned that he has clear dark intent against me to begin with. I have kids in my house, if it means that my kids don't get assaulted by a drug crazed nut, ya, I'll shoot first and ask questions later.

It may be that the bugler had no intent to do any damage, if he's smart he'd run as soon as he heard me stomping as I get up to find out what the hell is going on, if he doesn't, he obviously intends to try his luck and see if he can take me out before I stop his invasion. Well, maby he just wants to beat me to near unconsciousness in my own home uninvited... clearly I shouldn't be defending myself if it means the chance that he might die.

Sure, there are some people out there who would want the guy to die, and probably finish him off afterwards... the thing is, I'm not in the wrong to want to protect myself and my family on my private property. I shouldn't be restricted in doing so because other people have a more unethical approach to the issue.

Seriously, if you hear a burglar breaking into your house, what do you do? I'm of the assumption that most people here would probably grab the closest golf club or cricket bat after calling the cops and run to protect their most valuable things... especially if those most valuable things are children. The only difference is that if sociaty gives the burglar a reasonable chance to have a gun, than it needs to give his victims that chance as well.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:10

Swiftspear; How many burglary attempts have there been in your local area where the residents have been in the house during the act?

Most of the burglaries are committed during vacations, when there are no residents around.

Also;

Basically, by illegally breaking and entering, the burglar forfeits his right to protection by the government against force, including lethal force, by the property owner or residents. Or, to put it simply, if he don't wanna get shot at, he can go get a real job.

so you are basically saying that committing burglary attempt should be punishable by death and you should be the judge in that situation, and that the life of another human being is less than the price of your tv?

The thing is, I'm not so much concerned that the guy might have the intent of murdering me when he breaks in, I'm more concerned that he has clear dark intent against me to begin with.

if he would have clear dark intents against you he would be going for murder instead of attempted burglary.

The criminal is aiming to gain maximum profit with minimal effort using illegal means to achieve the goal, and risking a lifetime inprisonment for the price of a TV is just . . . retarded. As i said above, most of the burglaries are done during the times when the criminals know there are no people home, the rest who commit burglary attempts with weapons during daylight fall into the category picasso described;

Most Murders happen out of intense feelings, drugs, rage.. by people who are beyond any controll already. So the Fear scares them off argument is also not counting...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Nov 2007, 22:23

Most of the home invaders in my local area are drugged up homeless nuts who will do pretty much anything to fund their next fix. And not nearly enough of them break in while people are away, they get desperate and do stupid things. Stupid things includes assaulting people and harming people. Most likely they won't kill you, but I'm not really willing to take that risk with children.

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Firearms.