Balanced Annihilation V5.8

DZHIBRISH · Post by **DZHIBRISH** » 18 Oct 2007, 23:17

you can even say its unbalanced.. cause if you have a t2 lab you build 4 bombers and they make a suicide run on it...gg (they are always near the fron lines so its not that hard for bombers to reach them).
But that can be said about almost any defensive t2 structure..
They are oog in places like that middle geo on dsd...brilliant map design there though...

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 19 Oct 2007, 00:53

Go away plx.

Otherside · Post by **Otherside** » 19 Oct 2007, 05:20

i know u always know were a battery is gonna be but still the dmg is overpowered and if u comapre to arm equivalent would u prefer more energy which u cud get easier with fusions and in a location better suited that makes a big explosion.

or a 1450 range triple shot plasma bat which will destoy most anything in the surrounding area in seconds

only reason i play arm is for sniper

BA is still the most balanced mod out there but core is by far superior in pretty much every front...

tier 1 kbot ARM > core

tier 1 vehicle id say ARM > core its pretty equal tho

tier 2 vehicle core > arm

tier 2 kbot core > (just cos of the sumo)

tier 2 vehicles > goli and temor vs penetrator no comment

CORE!!

tier 1 defense > HLLT > beamer apart from that pretty equal

tier 2-3 defense > Id say it was equal but core has offensive eco

tier 3 : core has all terrain cheap tier 3 mech they have krog and catapult core have bantha and arty thing yeh... and razorback CORE ftw again (u could say bantha being cheaper than krog is good for arm but korg has more shooty and health and that gg explosion)

tier 1 air : Equal fair do's :p

tier 2 air : Brawlers Owns core gunship and its a matter of prefernece wether u prefer liche or krow but krow is way easier to own with and can destroy an area quikly were as nuke bombers make better suicide runners and do alot of dmg still think core wins

Evil4Zerggin · Post by **Evil4Zerggin** » 19 Oct 2007, 05:42

Otherside wrote:u cud get easier with fusions and in a location better suited that makes a big explosion.

The Prude gives you twice as much energy per cost compared to the Fusion Reactor. The Moho Geothermal gives you more than twice as much per cost compared to the Advanced Fusion Reactor.

Otherside wrote: rates than a guardian and more dmg is balanced ?

Guardian is fail most of the time anyhow.

Otherside wrote:BA is still the most balanced mod out there but core is by far superior in pretty much every front...

Okay, so ARM is superior at T1. That's what matters to 1v1ers, which is what the developers are.

Otherside wrote:tier 2-3 defense > Id say it was equal but core has offensive eco

You realize armed mexes extract less metal than unarmed ones?

Otherside wrote:its a matter of prefernece wether u prefer liche or krow but krow is way easier to own with and can destroy an area quikly were as nuke bombers make better suicide runners and do alot of dmg still think core wins

Because the Liche and Krow are the most important units in determining if one side is better than the other in air. Right.

Otherside · Post by **Otherside** » 19 Oct 2007, 05:51

lol yes they r cos every other unit is pretty much identical to its counter part apart from brawler and core gunship (keep forgetting name cos i always opt for krows)

and one unit in a tech line can certainly unbalance a whole tier of that tech

sumo r single handedly the reason why core r better in tier 2 kbot

and games shud try to be balanced in all aspects not just 1v1 the vast majority who play sping in general not just BA play team games more than 1v1's

Evil4Zerggin · Post by **Evil4Zerggin** » 19 Oct 2007, 06:18

Otherside wrote:lol yes they r cos every other unit is pretty much identical to its counter part apart from brawler and core gunship (keep forgetting name cos i always opt for krows)

Wrong. Some reasons:

1. ARM Phoenix is faster. CORE Hurricane has larger splash.
2. ARM has an EMP bomber (Stiletto); CORE does not.
3. ARM has Blade (admittedly fail), CORE does not.
4. CORE has faster fighters.
5. ARM has faster bombers and radar planes.
6. ARM T2 air transport is armed, stealth, and faster. CORE T2 air transport is tougher.
7. Krow and Liche are extremely expensive even considering their power. Krow costs more than Bertha/Timy and more than 10 Rapier. 2 Liche cost as much as 11 Phoenix. Krow and Liche also drain 40 energy per tick.

Otherside wrote:and games shud try to be balanced in all aspects not just 1v1 the vast majority who play sping in general not just BA play team games more than 1v1's

I didn't say it was right. I just said it was the way it was.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 19 Oct 2007, 06:20

I play arm air mostly for the stiletto and brawler. The rapier is just useless due to its inaccuracy. But if i can go seaplanes, i always try to go core. :D

I consider the Sumo OP, so it will probaly get nerfed next vsn.

Well, you dont want to make core t2 kbots useless. The major thing about the sumo is its range. Its slow, but unlike the can, you cant outrange it easily- not even with snipers.

One thing I notice: should one ever use the gauss-fire mode on the Fido?

No. The secondary gun, due to scripted reload time, actually has more DPS (about 30% more) despite what modit says. You should usually use the alt fire mode.

On the Behemoth- its pretty expensive. It costs 3489, more than DDM (2855) or a toaster (2587). Most of that cost is energy, so its almost useless as an e-producing structure unless you already have a strong e-econ. It makes good artillery but as far as defenses go, you're better off with a DDM. A single barrage from a behemoth cant even kill a stumpy let alone an anni.

Its an alright unit, especially given that its range is more than any other MRPC, allowing very good projection of power over a large area. The problem is you can only put it in certain spots. On DSD the one in the middle (if you can build it without being spotted- its buildtime is a little more than a DDM and twice that of a toaster) only reaches across half of the flats, and only covers 2 mexes. IMO its fine, if anything its UP.

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 19 Oct 2007, 06:41

Saktoth wrote:
One thing I notice: should one ever use the gauss-fire mode on the Fido?
No. The secondary gun, due to scripted reload time, actually has more DPS (about 30% more) despite what modit says. You should usually use the alt fire mode.

So why isn't that secondary mode the default?

Now, for my bizarre-assed, crazy nuke-the-moon suggestion:
make the Sumo cost substantial energy to move. Then using them for offense is an expensive proposition, so it becomes a semi-mobile turret.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 19 Oct 2007, 06:47

Because if everyone knew about it, everyone would have an edge now wouldn't they ^^

Otherside · Post by **Otherside** » 19 Oct 2007, 07:09

arm need a buff still regardless

but if the sumo gets nerfed other core tier 2 bots need a buff especially pyro

and fido is pretty useless

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 19 Oct 2007, 07:27

IMO, returning the old DPS for viper/pitbull would help alot.

Once you get a few of these up, almost nothing can take em down, and you can rely on these alone to hold off mountains of units and games quickly get stalemated and forced to air/bertha porc wars..

DZHIBRISH · Post by **DZHIBRISH** » 19 Oct 2007, 07:42

thats cause merls and diplomats suck in ba cost wise..

stilicho · Post by **stilicho** » 19 Oct 2007, 07:54

MR.D wrote:IMO, returning the old DPS for viper/pitbull would help alot.

Once you get a few of these up, almost nothing can take em down, and you can rely on these alone to hold off mountains of units and games quickly get stalemated and forced to air/bertha porc wars..

Penetrator + Radar vech for LOS works wonders against viper/pitbull.

DSD 6v6 turns into air/bertha porc war because people don't know how to break porc cost effectively. Case in a point a game I played earlier today: 3 of my allies build T3 Gantries, my opponents built 12 Berthas (none of which hit anything important). In the end it was nuke spam that won it.

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 19 Oct 2007, 12:57

Could FunTa build animations be used in BA instead of the tradition al build animation?

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 19 Oct 2007, 13:22

Saktoth wrote:Well, you dont want to make core t2 kbots useless. The major thing about the sumo is its range. Its slow, but unlike the can, you cant outrange it easily- not even with snipers.

I'd just reduce his health to 10.000 (nearly 1/3 less) and see if that's enough...

Instead of asking better Core units now I also would like to discuss about the Annihilator. In my opinion he sucks compared to the Doomsday Machine. The Anni has only about 60% dps of the DDM Anni Beam while having twice as much energy costs, has only 30% health of a DDM, has a more powerful explosion on death (less radius though), has no special damage on Krogs for example and costs about 40% more. The only advantage is the range. I think he really needs to get upgraded!

The Anni is already way inferior than the Doomsday's Annihilator Beam (and that's only one of his three) while being weaker and costing more. To make things even worse he does have no special damages except for one big joke: He does only do 99 damage on crawling bombs - he can't even kill any Bomb with one shot this way!

That's why I think his health should be increased to about 5000, its costs should be lower than a Doomsday while having the same Anni dps (which comes due to a higher fire rate) and he has to get special damage on Krogs and that hilarious bomb limitation removed.

EDIT:
Uppps - sorry about that special damage thing. Was in wrong weapon category!

KingRaptor · Post by **KingRaptor** » 19 Oct 2007, 13:34

[Krogoth86] wrote:has no special damage on Krogs

He does only do 99 damage on crawling bombs

What are you talking about?

I agree the Annihilator is significantly weaker than the Doomsday, but it does have one very important advantage: it has 1400 range, almost 50% more than the DDM and the longest range of any static (other than Behemoth, LRPCs and missiles) in the game. Its E cost is just ridiculous though.

[Krogoth86] · Post by **[Krogoth86]** » 19 Oct 2007, 15:16

KingRaptor wrote:What are you talking about?

Please read my post to the end again - I had browsed through the weapons and when looking at the special damages I didn't notice I still was in the "deathblast-weapon"...

KingRaptor wrote:I agree the Annihilator is significantly weaker than the Doomsday, but it does have one very important advantage: it has 1400 range, almost 50% more than the DDM and the longest range of any static (other than Behemoth, LRPCs and missiles) in the game. Its E cost is just ridiculous though.

Yes the range is high as I said but what is it good for? It's a defensive structure and so you probably are not going to use it to - well outrange an enemy defense line. You can do this in some situations but I wouldn't say the main purpose the Anni has is to be built at the front to kill the enemy defenses. With that said you just need a jammer and 3 merl rockets and the Anni is dead so it even is a dangerous task to use it at front...

The Doomsday's Anni-Beam has enough range to outrange most of all units in the game and as tanks are the most common force you'll face his Sumo and LLT-like Laser doa tremendrous job in killing incoming units. This all is something the Annihilator fails at. That's why I think give him at least the same dps like the Doomsday Anni (best would be via higher fire rate because it right now really can waste its enormous firepower on weak tanks which come in first, upgrade its Health to about 5000 (which still is very possible to kill with Merls) and make it a bit cheaper than a Doomsday...

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 19 Oct 2007, 15:40

Krogoth - if you want a defense for that firing range, just use Pitbulls. You only need 1 annihilator there, to hit artillery units or mechs that come calling, and to provide support to your mobile defenses if the fight moves away from your base. Your mainstay defense turret should be pitbulls.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 19 Oct 2007, 15:49

anni is fine as it outranges all mobile artilery and DDM does not. Tremor pwn ddm but not anni.

I agree on sumo being op. Some bigger BT could fix that imo.

Overall balance is very good, BUT:
-battleships are quite bad compared to cruisers, i would give em more HP to be cost effective
-T2 arm kbots lack with sniper nerfage. Mav is a big joke imo, even stumies will kill it for cost. Overall arm kbots need something.

Gameplay is very smooth thogh, there are really so many options now with better T2. Talkin about big games.

Berta/timy are a bit too good now imo. I spam them every game to rape eco. I would leave accuricy but lower heatlh so bombers can kill em faster.

Peace · Post by **Peace** » 19 Oct 2007, 16:37

ginekolog wrote:Overall arm kbots need something.

Yarrrrr!!!

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation V5.8