i'm pretty much the best cvc player and heavies are worthless, especially the trieme. usually you just spam drones.KDR_11k wrote:Version envy. Or possibly the CvC school of balancing.SwiftSpear wrote:How can you rationalize making 5.4 version releases before and not figuring out that certain units need to be tweaked so massively as to double and half massively gameplay relevant statistics such as DPS and HP?
Which reminds me I need to give at least some of the heavies a price hike, you can spam Triremes like noone's business in 0.4...
Balanced Annihilation 5.5 is OUT
Moderator: Moderators
Triremes cost 2500M, 16 secs to make in a big fac. Laserdrones cost 80M but get raped by the dozen by a single Trireme (in fact everything gets raped by a Trireme that managed to get in range, add Heavy Weapons Deployment and you get twice the rape for the same price). Missile drones are 500M a piece and you need quite a large number of them to get rid of a Trireme quickly. Also don't forget the Trireme's selfdestruct in case it really IS overwhelmed. They're slow but they're creeping doom.tombom wrote:i'm pretty much the best cvc player and heavies are worthless, especially the trieme. usually you just spam drones.
Anyway, we're getting OT...
Does the jugg's gun still suck? Because to me, that was always the funny part - you have a nigh-invincible unit that you can completely ignore.
And yeah, most important = fix bladewing patrol. Just give its gun a 360-degree firing arc and a little longer range - that should solve most of it's problems.
And yeah, most important = fix bladewing patrol. Just give its gun a 360-degree firing arc and a little longer range - that should solve most of it's problems.
Ah, I haven't seen one actually used in-game since before the LLTs were added.Relative wrote:Yeah, it still sucks. It has four weak LLT guns and a weak d-gun like plasma spread weapon. In its current state its best used as a scoutPxtl wrote:Does the jugg's gun still suck? Because to me, that was always the funny part - you have a nigh-invincible unit that you can completely ignore.
Don't think 5.5 changes are really that bad as most people seem to think...
In 5.4, Popups needed 2-3 hits to kill a single flash/gater, Liche was much too cost-inefficient compared to bombers, Banisher did 1/5 of Penetrator DPS while costing almost as much (ok, they use no E, have tracking and can shoot at air, but still...), and buff for Merl/Diplo, Razorback and Bantha where much needed imho...and the Juggernaut, keeping it's cost, weaponry and speed, an extreme HP boost was simply necessary imo (although 250-300k might have been enough perhaps, but haven't seen/tried it ingame yet). Also, against Juggernaut:
20 Snipers/Penetrators -> 10 shots, 10 Krows: ~2 minutes fire... considering Jugg's low speed, weaponry and "roflz i maek t3"-cost, might not be too unfair...also they don't blow up half a base when dying (like Krog). Since they don't have Krog crush, can they be stopped by Dragonteeth? Gotta try out...however, it might be appropriate to add them to the anti-Krogoth special damage category. Right now poor Kroggie gets all the Sniper and Doomsday pwnage while Juggie with ~3 times the HP laughs at him :D
Personal thoughts about stuff i think is still needed:
-Corvettes massive E shooting cost has to go imho, since hovers don't have any and corvettes are also expected to be hover counter they might often be needed in larger groups by a sea player
-Fatboys's gun might need a little buff, i have seen it needing 3 hits to kill a t1 tank ingame which, considering its low RoF and plasma weapon related inaccuracy, might be a little much (2 hits would be fine imho)
-Zeus' gun needs better accuracy especially against moving stuff imho, maybe very slight DPS buff wouldn't hurt too
-Rapiers could use a little better accuracy
-Arm Marauder needs a serious buff imho (especially since other t3 has been buffed), it sucks ass
-Maybe something with LRMT, a little better AoE, RoF or whatever (since they can be easily countered by single peepers)...
-Maybe minimal accuracy buff for Catapult
-EMP-resistance for Bantha (don't know if it has been done already...)
-Experimental idea: give minelayers ability to reclaim, would fit their secondary "clear stuff" job and vehicle guys could have a "quick mobile front reclaimer" too (kbot guys have quick necros, air guys have conplanes), maybe balance the reclaim ability with a slight cost increase for the minelayer (they can be quite effective anyways)
In 5.4, Popups needed 2-3 hits to kill a single flash/gater, Liche was much too cost-inefficient compared to bombers, Banisher did 1/5 of Penetrator DPS while costing almost as much (ok, they use no E, have tracking and can shoot at air, but still...), and buff for Merl/Diplo, Razorback and Bantha where much needed imho...and the Juggernaut, keeping it's cost, weaponry and speed, an extreme HP boost was simply necessary imo (although 250-300k might have been enough perhaps, but haven't seen/tried it ingame yet). Also, against Juggernaut:
20 Snipers/Penetrators -> 10 shots, 10 Krows: ~2 minutes fire... considering Jugg's low speed, weaponry and "roflz i maek t3"-cost, might not be too unfair...also they don't blow up half a base when dying (like Krog). Since they don't have Krog crush, can they be stopped by Dragonteeth? Gotta try out...however, it might be appropriate to add them to the anti-Krogoth special damage category. Right now poor Kroggie gets all the Sniper and Doomsday pwnage while Juggie with ~3 times the HP laughs at him :D
Personal thoughts about stuff i think is still needed:
-Corvettes massive E shooting cost has to go imho, since hovers don't have any and corvettes are also expected to be hover counter they might often be needed in larger groups by a sea player
-Fatboys's gun might need a little buff, i have seen it needing 3 hits to kill a t1 tank ingame which, considering its low RoF and plasma weapon related inaccuracy, might be a little much (2 hits would be fine imho)
-Zeus' gun needs better accuracy especially against moving stuff imho, maybe very slight DPS buff wouldn't hurt too
-Rapiers could use a little better accuracy
-Arm Marauder needs a serious buff imho (especially since other t3 has been buffed), it sucks ass
-Maybe something with LRMT, a little better AoE, RoF or whatever (since they can be easily countered by single peepers)...
-Maybe minimal accuracy buff for Catapult
-EMP-resistance for Bantha (don't know if it has been done already...)
-Experimental idea: give minelayers ability to reclaim, would fit their secondary "clear stuff" job and vehicle guys could have a "quick mobile front reclaimer" too (kbot guys have quick necros, air guys have conplanes), maybe balance the reclaim ability with a slight cost increase for the minelayer (they can be quite effective anyways)
Last edited by Klopper on 24 Jul 2007, 02:52, edited 6 times in total.
Lightning has a hardcoded inaccuracy with a comment stating "should make them less effective vs. airplanes" next to it. It'll be fixed in the next release if my patch goes in but until then you can't change the accuracy of the weapon at all.Klopper wrote:-Zeus' gun needs better accuracy especially against moving stuff imho, maybe very slight DPS buff wouldn't hurt too
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KingRaptor
- Zero-K Developer
- Posts: 838
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 03:44
Merl/Diplomat and Bantha buffs are good I suppose.
My beef with the changes:
-Popups certainly could use a DPS buff sure, but 100% increase is patently ridiculous. They already are resistant to artillery when popped down and have longer range than HLTs. Thanks for making "lawl I porc" a more attractive option.
-Liche and Razorback buffs are dull and uncreative, and probably too much in the case of the Liche
-Krow buff fixes absolutely none the fundamental problems with the unit. Ohh, now it takes twice as long to waste your opponent's 4798 metal (the adjusted cost is a whopping 5893)
And Juggernaut...I don't even want to talk about Juggernaut.
114 shots from Penetrator / 80 from Sharpshooter, both of which are specialized anti-heavyunit, just to take down one jugg?
In tests, a jugg supported by 4 Penetrators and 10 Reapers can breach a defense line consisting of two Doomsday Machines, two Annihilators, 12 Vipers and 10 Sharpshooters, and it doesn't die to boot *_*
My beef with the changes:
-Popups certainly could use a DPS buff sure, but 100% increase is patently ridiculous. They already are resistant to artillery when popped down and have longer range than HLTs. Thanks for making "lawl I porc" a more attractive option.
-Liche and Razorback buffs are dull and uncreative, and probably too much in the case of the Liche
-Krow buff fixes absolutely none the fundamental problems with the unit. Ohh, now it takes twice as long to waste your opponent's 4798 metal (the adjusted cost is a whopping 5893)
And Juggernaut...I don't even want to talk about Juggernaut.
114 shots from Penetrator / 80 from Sharpshooter, both of which are specialized anti-heavyunit, just to take down one jugg?
In tests, a jugg supported by 4 Penetrators and 10 Reapers can breach a defense line consisting of two Doomsday Machines, two Annihilators, 12 Vipers and 10 Sharpshooters, and it doesn't die to boot *_*
The juggernaut is frickin insane, esp considering the general neglect shown to other t3 units. However, its really just the same situation as a krog- d-gun it, or hit it with snipers. Hell its not emp resistant- emp it. Only major difference is jug is cheaper, but its so slow that it takes forever to arrive on the frontline. IMO if you havent won by the time he starts spamming juggs, then the game shoulda been over ages ago.
