Gundam 1.1 - Page 15

Gundam 1.1

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AF
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Post by AF » 03 May 2007, 10:00

It's better to release one big revolutionery version that everyone gets excited about and d/ls
Gundam isnt that large, noy everyone gets excited about it, its a rather small group, aka just how smoth likes it for the moment.

1.0 was such an example of a revolutionary release and it didnt recieve much of a welcome. At the end of the day this is technically 'lightweight' mod development. Smoth may be doing it a lot, but he's not stressing over it(I dont think he is?).
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smoth
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Post by smoth » 03 May 2007, 18:01

AF wrote: 1.0 was such an example of a revolutionary release and it didnt recieve much of a welcome. At the end of the day this is technically 'lightweight' mod development. Smoth may be doing it a lot, but he's not stressing over it(I dont think he is?).
Brace for Xfanboi flamerebuttal

At the end of the day I do more then many of the "popular" "mod(s)" do, from new models to tweaked effects, new gameplay etc. Sure, I have less "I changed brakespeed from 1.2 to 1.21" but those changes happen soo much while testing that I would rather spend my time updating the thing then writing documentation.

However, people chastise me for adding graphics because "I do not spend enough time on gameplay" yet, that is what all of this is about. Graphics convey a feeling while playing, visuals affect people on a subconscious level. As does sound, which is constantly being worked on. I make all my sounds or for certain unique to gundam sounds(like the gyupon of the zaku and twooo of a beamrifle). When I added sounds from gundam it added feel to the project.

the world of a game is important and creating that important feel needs to happen. Is that "feel" complete... hell no, I am still stripping out the nanoframes and nanolathes.

Yet with all the work on feel, art and gameplay(because if I do not mention THE OBVIOUS some wanker is going to say I didn't consider it). Gundam is unpopular, why? Well, lets talk about it. some people do not play gundam because it is made by me or that it "is anime" or they do not play it because 90% of the people are here to play TA. I think that the real reason was hit on by our local hobbit nixa, there is no "maek gator spam."

Guess what, anyone who knows the fluff knows that federation and zeon get spamable units. Federation gets the GM and zeon gets the zaku. However, that was only the span of one year, this mod covers 4-5 years of MS. That means that the gm and zaku become outdated. So... wait this is going to take too long to explain. I am going into a gameplay rant..

look, gundam will be unpopular:

Learning curve
Econ based war is how you really win
no "maek gator spam"
Anime(pfffft whatever)
it is pretty so it must play poorly
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng » 03 May 2007, 19:51

I play pretty much ever mod, EE is probably my fav mod.
I played gundam for a while.
I didnt like it because I didnt get a feeling of feedback from units. even after using a unit extensively I couldnt understand its capabilities. Ive made twenty or so basic boys, and suddenly en enemy basic boy with a shoulderpad and a flashy helmet levels them all.
this isnt so much a of a problem because with time you learn units.
there is much I like about gundam.
but i dont like the economic model. i detest it. I dosnt reward territory it rewards spamming out lots of energy things and metal things.

because i could never grasp how good a unit was, and wether it would beat an enemy unit, i never got a solid feel for the mod.
it being anime dosnt affect it in spring at all.
I just didnt like the feeling of complete non-understanding I have about the capability and use of any of the units even after numerous games.

in the end I won games by putting lots of boys on zork airtransports :-)
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zwzsg
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Post by zwzsg » 03 May 2007, 19:58

Right now, in #sy

<TeaPot> someone needs to make a mod that has some decent models in it
<TeaPot> thats not EE
<TeaPot> or a spam mod
<Sound> isn't gundam cool?
<TeaPot> gundam sucks
Actual names changed for privacy

I think that pretty much sum it up: People pretends to be eagerly awaiting modders to make them pwetty new and cool mods, but will hate with a passion any that is actually done.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng » 03 May 2007, 20:00

oh oh I just cant guess who sound and teapot are :P
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Pxtl
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Post by Pxtl » 03 May 2007, 20:07

zwzsg wrote:Right now, in #sy

<TeaPot> someone needs to make a mod that has some decent models in it
<TeaPot> thats not EE
<TeaPot> or a spam mod
<Sound> isn't gundam cool?
<TeaPot> gundam sucks
Actual names changed for privacy

I think that pretty much sum it up: People pretends to be eagerly awaiting modders to make them pwetty new and cool mods, but will hate with a passion any that is actually done.
zomg. I'll grant that Nanoblobs and KP are spam mods, but how can anyone complain about Gundam and EE, given his vague suggestion of "I want a non-TA mod".

Guy probably wants just TA with sexier models.
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tombom
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Post by tombom » 03 May 2007, 20:20

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:I play pretty much ever mod, EE is probably my fav mod.
I played gundam for a while.
I didnt like it because I didnt get a feeling of feedback from units. even after using a unit extensively I couldnt understand its capabilities. Ive made twenty or so basic boys, and suddenly en enemy basic boy with a shoulderpad and a flashy helmet levels them all.
this isnt so much a of a problem because with time you learn units.
there is much I like about gundam.
but i dont like the economic model. i detest it. I dosnt reward territory it rewards spamming out lots of energy things and metal things.

because i could never grasp how good a unit was, and wether it would beat an enemy unit, i never got a solid feel for the mod.
it being anime dosnt affect it in spring at all.
I just didnt like the feeling of complete non-understanding I have about the capability and use of any of the units even after numerous games.
I pretty much agree with this. I have tried Gundam quite a bit and I'll try it again next release, I just don't feel like I'm learning from playing. I read the 1.1 release notes thing and I still didn't get it. It looks awesome, I just don't understand it at all.
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iamacup
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Post by iamacup » 03 May 2007, 21:05

ROFL i wonder who teapot and sound are :P
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rattle
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Post by rattle » 03 May 2007, 21:16

LordMatt = teapot!! And sound is LordMatt's split personality...
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 03 May 2007, 21:16

I think Gundam needs better unit descriptions that emphasize the usage of a unit more. E.g. the Ez8's machineguns need to be mentioned somehow because they are critical in Ez8 vs. Char duels in 1.11.

Also IIRC the beamrifles on rx79s are labelled longrange, I'd call that mid range.
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rattle
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Post by rattle » 03 May 2007, 21:25

There is one thing which bugged me for quite some time... it's the naming scheme for units.

Zaku, zakuI, zakuII, zakuIIrl, zakzIlfrzzz... and a whole lot of other units.

Is there some reason why it is that way instead of Zaku, Zaku I, Zaku II, Zaku II RL, RX79 RL, RX79 Zook, Guncannon, Guncannon II, etc.?

I have my difficulties with deciphering units in the build menu by the name, a cleaner naming scheme would be of help.
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 03 May 2007, 22:03

Try real life armor names. M4A3E8(76)W (Sherman Easy Eight) is easy to remember, eh?
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AF
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Post by AF » 03 May 2007, 22:36

rattle, thats not smoths choices, thats the choice of a japanese dude helping to animate a gundam episode. Its the fluff.
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rattle
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Post by rattle » 03 May 2007, 23:18

I know that.

Zaku 2, Zaku 2 RL, Zaku 2 R, all proper. Then there's ZAKU I and ZAKU 2 FZB... Why not Zaku I, Zaku II, Zaku II RL, Zaku II FZB, Zaku II RL Plus and so forth. I know this might be a minor issue overall for a lot of people but this sort of thing annoys me. I'm bringing this up because this could be changed on the fly while doing other stuff such as tweaking stats, if there's any intent to do so.
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AF
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Post by AF » 03 May 2007, 23:24

Smoth cant deviate from the fluff.

IK, yes you spam economy, bu it takes up a lot of space, and you need to acquire territory in order to expand your base into. You also need to manage the ever growing abse and economy neds and the space required to support it. Economy base space can quickly grow out of control if you let it and many maps dont like gundam because there isnt enough room to build the large farms necessary to have a stable economy. New users just dont realize how far they need to go and that their whole attitude should ba to expand on a mass industrial scale nonestop when possible.

This also exposes lots of nice juicy targets to the enemy.
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smoth
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Post by smoth » 04 May 2007, 00:35

eh, lua will allow me to do the econ of my dreams. Luckily since it will just be necessary buildings etc ai's should still work with it.
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dougbendo
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hi smooth

Post by dougbendo » 17 May 2007, 17:20

High smooth I been playing your mod and I like it alot. I have just about all the gundam games for playstaion, ps2, psp, Nes and the list goes on. To tell you the truth I more of a robotech fan but robotech doesn├óÔé¼Ôäót have any great games. I think that your mod is great but I want to try something if you don├óÔé¼Ôäót mind. I wnat to mod some of the units stats in the games.

Now these won├óÔé¼Ôäót be some crazy stats that I just picked off the top of my head. The stats that will be given are going to be based of a game called Gundam Generations. Its a turn based gundam games. I beat it along time ago. But they give the points for every mobile suit in the gundam U.C. univers. My plan is to add those stats to your mod. I├óÔé¼Ôäóm hoping that it will balance out lots of the issues I see in you game. If fact I think it will.

What I will do is give you a redone Unit and weapons file. All I need you to do is to recompile it into a workable SDZ file for me if you could. I hope that you will take me up on this. Like I said I reallyd to think this can help with a lot of the balancing issues of this nice game.

Tell me what you think of it when you get a chance.
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 17 May 2007, 18:00

Wait until 1.11 is released before you argue about balancing, there have been enough changes that other mods would call that the 2.0 release.

Also I would assume that game involves melee which adds a completely new balancing element.
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smoth
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Post by smoth » 17 May 2007, 18:16

I am glad you read the license that comes with the mod and were polite enough to ask me. The answer is no. The project is developed in secret without the public knowing what I do. The answer is no, a huge no.

As to my thoughts is that it is rather asinine to think that I am not balancing it and that you can stroll up and balance it with stats from a turn based strategy game. The stats in that revolve around biggest bestest units in the tradition of console strategy games. A turn based strategy game uses odd numbers and frankly they are not applicable.

I can understand that you may want to try and balance the current release. However, I do not permit it. Have faith that I am making an amazing next release and odds are whatever issue you had was already addressed. If you are interest in the progress of gundam and would like to see the stuff that I do not show here, join my forum and read it. Otherwise read the thread, see if I have not addressed your complaint and if I have not post it and I will look into it.
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 17 May 2007, 18:38

smoth wrote:The stats in that revolve around biggest bestest units in the tradition of console strategy games. A turn based strategy game uses odd numbers and frankly they are not applicable.
Also note that there's no "Can't catch me I'm the Gundam!" in TBS games.
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