EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)
Moderator: Moderators
Hey guess what guys, by playing my mod, you automatically are forfeitting your right to decide what is what, I as the mod maker determine what units you will play with, what they will look like, how they will sound, function and so on. So I really dont think its much of a stretch to think I can determine what camera you should be using. The only reason your not forced to use certain things is because as of yet I cannot force you to use them, however I can set up the mod to make sure that people using that have an advantage. EE was designed by me, I used rotatable overhead camera, which is not too dissimiliar to the FPS camera in its function. This means I like to rotate around and view stuff from any and every angle. I designed my models with this in mind, not to be viewed from top down zoomed out. So people who play top down zoomed out are going to be handicapped. What do I say to this, well the same thing I say to people who dislike the balance, pace, or concept behind my mod, GO POUND SAND. I made this for me, I made how I want, I DETERMINE HOW IT WORKS, I AM THE MOD MAKER. IF you do not like the way it works, do not play my mod, no one is forcing you to. Id love for everyone to enjoy and play my mod, but this is not a contest, Im not out to win a prize, I made this as a hobby for fun, and so that I could play it and enjoy it, and if you do not enjoy playing EE then by all means dont play it, I am not trying to force you. However if you are going to play EE your going to be constrained by My design/thought/intention and if you cant deal with that then tough luck.
That long rant said, HEY I CAN UVMAP TOO!
That long rant said, HEY I CAN UVMAP TOO!
in short, no you do not have to use any of the other cameras but you forfeit the benefits of said camera.
All this whining over cameras geez. I am not going to supply a video and asking fang for one would require him to stop his current work. Which I personally do not want to see.
I do not use rotatable over head I use FPS.
What is the advantage? Oh, I don't know maybe because you can see the battlefield at an angle that allows you to see the whole of an enemy attack force. Most of the time I just look down then when I have a reason I swing down to aircraft level and look ACROSS the battlefield to see what is happening.
However, if you enjoy having a view from a head locked camera go ahead.
All this whining over cameras geez. I am not going to supply a video and asking fang for one would require him to stop his current work. Which I personally do not want to see.
I do not use rotatable over head I use FPS.
What is the advantage? Oh, I don't know maybe because you can see the battlefield at an angle that allows you to see the whole of an enemy attack force. Most of the time I just look down then when I have a reason I swing down to aircraft level and look ACROSS the battlefield to see what is happening.
However, if you enjoy having a view from a head locked camera go ahead.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
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- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
<Borat Voice> It's a very nice <thumbs up>
I use FPS and guess what, I've never gone back. The other camera's are too restricting, too simple. I enjoy zooming around the map like a bird, commanding from whatever view I want. Just play like that for a single day and you'll get used to it. Or you'll suck and die. But either way, you'll notice that the game is MUCH more attractive from FPS view.
Want proof? Here it is:
FPS VIEW
TA VIEW
The graphical difference aside, the actual command of the battle is actually improved, in my case. I have a problem tearing my eyes away from the exciting main screen and to the comparatively dull minimap. I can't count how many times I spotted an enemy's White Base or Gow because I saw their smoke trails at an angle that would have been completely impossible at TA mode. And guess what, that allowed me to assemble fighters and take that White Base/Gow DOWN and that usually helped me win the game. Sure that was Gundam, but it still apply to EE. Like that time I noticed enemy reinforcements coming over the hill behind the battle. I thought, "I should bug out." and I did. Saved half my forces.
I use FPS and guess what, I've never gone back. The other camera's are too restricting, too simple. I enjoy zooming around the map like a bird, commanding from whatever view I want. Just play like that for a single day and you'll get used to it. Or you'll suck and die. But either way, you'll notice that the game is MUCH more attractive from FPS view.
Want proof? Here it is:
FPS VIEW
TA VIEW
The graphical difference aside, the actual command of the battle is actually improved, in my case. I have a problem tearing my eyes away from the exciting main screen and to the comparatively dull minimap. I can't count how many times I spotted an enemy's White Base or Gow because I saw their smoke trails at an angle that would have been completely impossible at TA mode. And guess what, that allowed me to assemble fighters and take that White Base/Gow DOWN and that usually helped me win the game. Sure that was Gundam, but it still apply to EE. Like that time I noticed enemy reinforcements coming over the hill behind the battle. I thought, "I should bug out." and I did. Saved half my forces.
Quite frankly, when using the overhead or FPS view in free look mode, the view should not move UP when I move the mouse DOWN (and vice versa). This bothers me - Spring isn't a flight simulator.
Secondly, having a 'fancy' viewpoint has the same problem here as in the Homeworld series (specifically HW2) - There's usually too much going on to have the luxury of appreciating all the nice artwork and effects up close. Many players end up playing the whole game from the Sensor's Manager (for those of you not familiar with HW, that's like commanding from the full screen minimap).
Also, messing around with the camera during a game wastes precious seconds every time you have to readjust it. I typically play at a medium zoom level and it takes me less than a second to zoom in using shift+mouse wheel when I need to inspect something more closely, due in part to the view automatically centering on the mouse while zooming.
Fourth, and related to the previous point - the mouse is, IMO, best used for issuing commands, not moving the camera. That's what the keyboard (and your other hand) is for (again, IMO). Both using arrow keys and double-selecting control groups. I typically have my left hand hovering over the right shift key and arrow keys so I can quickly move the camera and issue multiple orders without having to locate other keys. The only exceptions to this usage preference are the mouse wheel (of course) and also people who prefer to middle-click in the minimap for large view jumps when zoomed in. I don't use this method currently, mostly because I only recently heard it mentioned - apparently I missed it in the wiki, or it wasn't there.
No camera mode scrolls or zooms faster than the OTA style.
None are as easy to reposition.
Yes I angle the camera when it feels appropriate (such as to be better aware of terrain features - an excellent example would be Xanthe Terra) and it does not cause me to select a unit in front of the one I intended. (I hate you wind generators!)
No I do not have a problem identifying units in EE (small black mech with nozzle = run away - it's a Fire Ant; medium mech with a fat cannon on the side = run away - it's a Shotgun Mech; etc, etc).
I have no problem with other people using their preferred camera - if it works for them, that's great. But for me, the other cameras just don't fill my needs.
The perfect camera for me would be OTA style plus Total War style rotation (where the view rotates when the mouse is moved to the upper side of the screen).
Rant concluded esteemed comrades.
Secondly, having a 'fancy' viewpoint has the same problem here as in the Homeworld series (specifically HW2) - There's usually too much going on to have the luxury of appreciating all the nice artwork and effects up close. Many players end up playing the whole game from the Sensor's Manager (for those of you not familiar with HW, that's like commanding from the full screen minimap).
Also, messing around with the camera during a game wastes precious seconds every time you have to readjust it. I typically play at a medium zoom level and it takes me less than a second to zoom in using shift+mouse wheel when I need to inspect something more closely, due in part to the view automatically centering on the mouse while zooming.
Fourth, and related to the previous point - the mouse is, IMO, best used for issuing commands, not moving the camera. That's what the keyboard (and your other hand) is for (again, IMO). Both using arrow keys and double-selecting control groups. I typically have my left hand hovering over the right shift key and arrow keys so I can quickly move the camera and issue multiple orders without having to locate other keys. The only exceptions to this usage preference are the mouse wheel (of course) and also people who prefer to middle-click in the minimap for large view jumps when zoomed in. I don't use this method currently, mostly because I only recently heard it mentioned - apparently I missed it in the wiki, or it wasn't there.
No camera mode scrolls or zooms faster than the OTA style.
None are as easy to reposition.
Yes I angle the camera when it feels appropriate (such as to be better aware of terrain features - an excellent example would be Xanthe Terra) and it does not cause me to select a unit in front of the one I intended. (I hate you wind generators!)
No I do not have a problem identifying units in EE (small black mech with nozzle = run away - it's a Fire Ant; medium mech with a fat cannon on the side = run away - it's a Shotgun Mech; etc, etc).
I have no problem with other people using their preferred camera - if it works for them, that's great. But for me, the other cameras just don't fill my needs.
The perfect camera for me would be OTA style plus Total War style rotation (where the view rotates when the mouse is moved to the upper side of the screen).
Rant concluded esteemed comrades.
Last edited by BDCoolio on 04 Feb 2007, 10:07, edited 2 times in total.
perhaps you could remove all condescending text and or profanity?
That aside, BD, you have to admit that you see less of the battle field in that camera mode? I am not sure about ota camera is faster claims as I just click the minimap for large jumps otherwise I am watching my attack go off from my base as I manage the next set of troops to attack with.
Anyone who has played against me will tell you that I never use a single wave. I find that looking at the battlefield from my base is manageable. ESP when I can zoom in on any part of the map by clicking on the mini or just zooming out.
That aside, BD, you have to admit that you see less of the battle field in that camera mode? I am not sure about ota camera is faster claims as I just click the minimap for large jumps otherwise I am watching my attack go off from my base as I manage the next set of troops to attack with.
Anyone who has played against me will tell you that I never use a single wave. I find that looking at the battlefield from my base is manageable. ESP when I can zoom in on any part of the map by clicking on the mini or just zooming out.
Yeah, you're right, I was just, well... Anyway, edit proceeding....
However, I usually do angle down the camera at least somewhat, but when building at least, I like the top-down view as it's easier to see spatial relationships between structures. I would love a camera that behaves like the OTA one but allows for the much desired rotation capability. Really the main reason I use it is for speed and precision - using the keyboard for moving the camera is just my preference, and that doesn't work very well with the other cameras.
I see your point about watching the battlefield from your base, that would certainly be useful, (and I'll have to try that) but I also like to focus on one thing at a time and just flip back-and-forth. Better for micromanaging individual groups, anyway - but it also makes it easier to forget about things too. That's why I always try to assign a control group to any operation I'm conducting, unless I'm just spamming units (which I would only do in EE if I'm sending a one-shot air attack I don't intend to salvage units from).
However, I usually do angle down the camera at least somewhat, but when building at least, I like the top-down view as it's easier to see spatial relationships between structures. I would love a camera that behaves like the OTA one but allows for the much desired rotation capability. Really the main reason I use it is for speed and precision - using the keyboard for moving the camera is just my preference, and that doesn't work very well with the other cameras.
I see your point about watching the battlefield from your base, that would certainly be useful, (and I'll have to try that) but I also like to focus on one thing at a time and just flip back-and-forth. Better for micromanaging individual groups, anyway - but it also makes it easier to forget about things too. That's why I always try to assign a control group to any operation I'm conducting, unless I'm just spamming units (which I would only do in EE if I'm sending a one-shot air attack I don't intend to salvage units from).
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Ok, another thing that no one has mentioned yet....
Regardless of camera orientation, EE is meant to be played with units controlled as groups.
Honestly, unless you are using stealth/cloaked units then there really isn't any need to recognize what the units are. All that is needed is that they be assigned to a control group. If you need to split your group to flank, simply select a portion of your forces, assign to a different group, proceed flanking, then rejoin the two groups.
EE isn't about the control of one particular unit, it's about your control of your unit group(s).
EE is about having good mixed unit groups. TA type mods are more about spamming 1 or 2 types of units and simply sending them in. Sure microing your army in TA mods is helpful, but in EE good control over your groups is crucial to the outcome of the battle.
TA mods in many ways a a long ways away in terms of playstyle from EE and more notably, Gundam, and should be played as such.'
Certainly, you can play EE the way you play BA or whatever TA mod, and you can do reasonably well, but if you don't get the concept of controlling groups as opposed to individual units, then you probably won't do all that well in EE.
Regardless of camera orientation, EE is meant to be played with units controlled as groups.
Honestly, unless you are using stealth/cloaked units then there really isn't any need to recognize what the units are. All that is needed is that they be assigned to a control group. If you need to split your group to flank, simply select a portion of your forces, assign to a different group, proceed flanking, then rejoin the two groups.
EE isn't about the control of one particular unit, it's about your control of your unit group(s).
EE is about having good mixed unit groups. TA type mods are more about spamming 1 or 2 types of units and simply sending them in. Sure microing your army in TA mods is helpful, but in EE good control over your groups is crucial to the outcome of the battle.
TA mods in many ways a a long ways away in terms of playstyle from EE and more notably, Gundam, and should be played as such.'
Certainly, you can play EE the way you play BA or whatever TA mod, and you can do reasonably well, but if you don't get the concept of controlling groups as opposed to individual units, then you probably won't do all that well in EE.
I tried the different cameras again
TotalWar:
Okish but gets annoying quickly.
Rotatable Overhead:
This would be fien if onyl the zoom worked properly. It has no zoom to cursor, and the zoom just raises and lowers the camera rather than zooming in on the target, changing what its looking at in the process.
FPS:
At first this was awkward and annoying, but then I learnt a few little tricks and it became a heck of a lot easier.
Having ran spring at min settings then bought a new computer and switched to max, looking in top down view was a waste as little improvement was made. But the improvement was immense when viewed from sideways.
When in FPS mode my immediate concern was strafing the camera with the arrow keys like in the other cameras, since I could only do it left and right, then I realized how to do it.
Howto Use FPS camera quick and easy.
To look around drag the mouse with the middle mouse button.
To move position, middle click, and move left or right while rotating the camera.
To move fast zoom out quickly, minimap middleclick, or using shift+back key while looking down, look at where you want to go shift+up, then look down and shift back to zoom out.
Mastering the FPS camera makes the FPS camera easier than the overhead and gives you a much greater range of information, and makes combat much better.
The only contender is the populous camera where you use left and right arrows to rotate, and the screen sides are still the same..
And URC is looking better than ever:
TotalWar:
Okish but gets annoying quickly.
Rotatable Overhead:
This would be fien if onyl the zoom worked properly. It has no zoom to cursor, and the zoom just raises and lowers the camera rather than zooming in on the target, changing what its looking at in the process.
FPS:
At first this was awkward and annoying, but then I learnt a few little tricks and it became a heck of a lot easier.
Having ran spring at min settings then bought a new computer and switched to max, looking in top down view was a waste as little improvement was made. But the improvement was immense when viewed from sideways.
When in FPS mode my immediate concern was strafing the camera with the arrow keys like in the other cameras, since I could only do it left and right, then I realized how to do it.
Howto Use FPS camera quick and easy.
To look around drag the mouse with the middle mouse button.
To move position, middle click, and move left or right while rotating the camera.
To move fast zoom out quickly, minimap middleclick, or using shift+back key while looking down, look at where you want to go shift+up, then look down and shift back to zoom out.
Mastering the FPS camera makes the FPS camera easier than the overhead and gives you a much greater range of information, and makes combat much better.
The only contender is the populous camera where you use left and right arrows to rotate, and the screen sides are still the same..
And URC is looking better than ever:
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
I disagree. I usually play from the OTA camera, zoomed out really far (and tilted a little for better unit differentiation and eyecandy). It gives me a much better idea of what's going on than anything else, and then using the excellent zoom-to-cursor function I can easily zoom in for controlling things more directly and accurately, and then zoom out again for the big picture.smoth wrote:That aside, BD, you have to admit that you see less of the battle field in that camera mode?
The only tactical advantage that I could see from using another view is that I would be able to see things from other perspectives, possibly improving my play (think Ender's Game). But that not be worth losing the zoom-to-cursor, so for now I stick with the OTA camera.
If it could rotate though... I would be very happy.
Oh, and changing the speed in the settings: What exactly does that change? Scroll speed? Does it actually work? I seem to remember it not working.