New map format

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 13 Oct 2006, 08:19

The new map format is in this release 0.73b1 but its still not complete. For example there aren't any shadows for units. But this release didn't include the shaders which are needed, they were forgotten. Rumours say there will be a 0.73b2 in a short while :)

bamb · Post by **bamb** » 23 Nov 2006, 23:32

Would it be super-easy to add rotation in addition to scaling when applying tiled textures to the map? That could potentially make tiling much less obvious if you blended some stretched rotated textures on say, flat grass plains.
I don't really know, but I've heard something like that is used in ETQW to make it look better.

Post by **jcnossen** » 23 Nov 2006, 23:38

Thanks!
Good idea, it's indeed easy to implement

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 24 Nov 2006, 16:34

Since SM3 forces you to use blendmaps that are a quarter of the maps actual size, would it be possible to re-do the classic SM2 1 big texture format with SM3's compression and non-compiling neededness? Call it SM2.5 or somthing?

Post by **jcnossen** » 24 Nov 2006, 16:49

Since SM3 forces you to use blendmaps that are a quarter of the maps actual size

The blendmap just need to be <= 2048, because of hardware texture size limitations.

would it be possible to re-do the classic SM2 1 big texture format with SM3's compression and non-compiling neededness? Call it SM2.5 or somthing?

not sure what you mean, there is no such thing as sm3 compression.

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 24 Nov 2006, 22:52

jcnossen wrote:
Since SM3 forces you to use blendmaps that are a quarter of the maps actual size
The blendmap just need to be <= 2048, because of hardware texture size limitations.

would it be possible to re-do the classic SM2 1 big texture format with SM3's compression and non-compiling neededness? Call it SM2.5 or somthing?
not sure what you mean, there is no such thing as sm3 compression.

So if I have an "sm3" map with a game area of 1024 x 1024, I could have a blendmap the same size,, yes

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 25 Nov 2006, 00:24

According to FA and my personal experience...no, you can't.

Probably a mistake on my part describing it as compression. I mean its format, how you simply have to drag and drop images and code them into the SM3, giving a possibility for great looking maps with really small filesizes in very quick time. SM2 dosn't have this. But I like to have just one big texture instead of making a bunch of smaller ones. I was wondering if we could combine the two somehow.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 25 Nov 2006, 06:47

I've only had success with gamearea's of 1024x1024 and 2048x2048

also, if my blendmaps aren't 1/2 size of gamearea it doesn't work. I've tried 1/8th, 1/4th, neither work for me.

lordo, it's more simple in some ways, tougher in other ways. L3dt comes very much in handy because of the attributes maps. Also, you have to be careful about the orders of your texture stages. I spent prolly 4 or 5 hours geting the stages right for whakamatunga riri.

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 25 Nov 2006, 07:17

I just finished an sm3 version of Canyon Pass and my blendmaps are the same size as "GameArea" which is 1024 x 1024, just FYI

The map.
http://muf.222clan.com/Pass.zip

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 25 Nov 2006, 08:33

I don't remember ever saying that the blendmaps couldn't be as large as the game area. I'm pretty sure I've made them that big before. Meh anyway.

One hting, I would like to know, if the blendmap is larger, does it take up more memory?

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 25 Nov 2006, 08:53

Forboding Angel wrote:I don't remember ever saying that the blendmaps couldn't be as large as the game area. I'm pretty sure I've made them that big before. Meh anyway.

One hting, I would like to know, if the blendmap is larger, does it take up more memory?

My bad, I must have misunderstood.

As for the memory question, I guess it would a 512 blendmap is around the 159kb mark, the same file at 1024 is around 504kb and with six blenders thats around 3mb, but thats just the filesize of the jpg`s, loaded in memory their obviously decompressed so it might be more like 6mb in total I suppose

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 25 Nov 2006, 19:45

ya know, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I said that indirectly. Meh my bad, didn't mean to throw anyone off

Thanks for the info muf. I assume the tradeoff of the blendmap would be the higher res and more accurate blend. Hmm, interesting.

Heh, when we have the shaders for sm3 I'mma be mapping like a mad man. BTW something that you can do that is pretty neat. If you have maps that are very complicated texture wise, you can reuse the exact same texture stages to recreate different maps with that same texturing method. It's sorta tough depending on how complicated it is, but it is doable.

Post by **jcnossen** » 26 Nov 2006, 01:05

There are still problems though... spring hangs for me when i try changing camera mode in an sm3 map. Anyone else has that?
Hangups are very nasty to debug :S

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 26 Nov 2006, 01:15

I can change camera mode without a problem, actually the only issue I have is this error on starting Spring if I have shaders enabled for sm3 maps, but we already know about that

---------------------------
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
---------------------------
Runtime Error!

Program:

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

@ Forboding, I plan to do just that, and re use texture sets on different maps, about the only change needed is map size properties in the .sm3 and changing the blendmaps , height-metal, typemap and featuremap "once features are supported".
One thing I have figured out, with regard to the blend maps, is you use them in the same order in the sm3 as l3dt exports them, with the exception of the first blender, obviously.

Spring RTS Engine

New map format