TrueSkill integration in lobby

TrueSkill integration in lobby

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danil_kalina
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010, 22:21

TrueSkill integration in lobby

Post by danil_kalina » 05 Sep 2013, 13:43

Lobby update, ver 4.4

bar values from 0 till 50

skilluncertainty == 0 => bar is green
skilluncertainty > 2 => bar is red

When I change my status from Player to Spectator
and vice versa, SPADS sends new TrueSkill values. why ?

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dansan
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by dansan » 05 Sep 2013, 14:39

Very nice!

While "50" should be good for a while, here is an idea:
You could make the bar relative to the current strongest player: PM "!leaderboard <modShortName> <gameType>" to SLDB and grep the response line that begins with a "1", use the 6th column ("EstimatedSkill").
For "!leaderboard BA Team" that'd be Teddy with "45.05".

"!leaderboard" is expensive for SLDB, so cache this for a day! (Discuss this with bibim anyway, there is probably a better way :)
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by bibim » 05 Sep 2013, 16:38

Nice danil_kalina!
Maybe you could keep the '~' symbol in the skill value for players having privacyMode enabled (or find an alternate way to show it), so that you know it's only a rough value which is shown?

Concerning SPADS re-sending TS values when you switch between player and spectator mode, I guess that's because there were only 2 other players in the battleroom when you tested?
SPADS always sends the TS values corresponding to current game type. If there are only 2 players in the battleroom, SPADS sends the duel TS values. But if you unspec and become a third player in the battleroom, SPADS will send the team TS values.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by danil_kalina » 05 Sep 2013, 16:49

bibim wrote:Maybe you could keep the '~' symbol in the skill value for players having privacyMode enabled (or find an alternate way to show it), so that you know it's only a rough value which is shown?
you can send the exact match for skill, 36.54 for exmaple.
anyway lobby shows rough value ( translate FLOAT to INT ), but in the ToolTip you can see the value that SPADS sends ( bars uses this value too )
bibim wrote:Concerning SPADS re-sending TS values when you switch between player and spectator mode, I guess that's because there were only 2 other players in the battleroom when you tested?
yeah, true
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by bibim » 05 Sep 2013, 16:57

Imo it's not a problem to consider 50 as the maximum TS value to show skill bar indicators in lobbies:
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/details.aspx wrote:Since the TrueSkill ranking system uses a Gaussian belief distribution to characterise a player’s skill, all mean skills (that is, μ's) will always lie within ± 4 times the initial σ (more precisely with probability 99.99%). Experimental data tracking roughly 650,000 players over 2.8 million games support this claim: Not a single μ ever happened to be outside the range ± 4 times the initial σ and 99.99% of the μ's happen to be even within ± 3 times the initial σ.

Interestingly, the TrueSkill ranking system can do all calculations using an initial uncertainty of 1, because then μ and σ can be scaled to any other range by simply multiplying them. For example, suppose all calculations are done with an initial μ of 3 and σ of 1. If one wishes to express player’s skill as one of 50 “levels”, multiply μ and σ by 50/6 = 8.3 because almost all μ's happen to be within ± 3 times the initial σ.
Although 45.05 may seem quite close to 50, current player base would actually need to grow by several orders of magnitude to break the 50 trueskill limit. And even then, it would never be that much above 50.
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by bibim » 05 Sep 2013, 17:14

danil_kalina wrote:
bibim wrote:Maybe you could keep the '~' symbol in the skill value for players having privacyMode enabled (or find an alternate way to show it), so that you know it's only a rough value which is shown?
you can send the exact match for skill, 36.54 for exmaple.
That's for players having privacyMode disabled.

But for players having privacyMode enabled (current default), SPADS only sends an approximate value (rounded to one of: 10,13,16,20,25,30,35,38), and prefixed with "~".
I think it's quite useful to know when it's only an approximate value.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by danil_kalina » 05 Sep 2013, 17:33

didn't get what for this privacy mode ;) could you explain ?

And would you be so kind and bring back Statistics, I like it much.
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by bibim » 05 Sep 2013, 17:49

The privacyMode is a per-user setting that every player can adjust through private messages to "SLDB" (cf this post for more info).

Basically this privacyMode determines if your exact skill value can be shown to other players, or if only a rought estimate must be shown.

So, for players in the battleroom having privacyMode enabled, you will receive SETSCRIPTTAGS commands with approximate values prefixed by "~" (these values are really approximate, not only rounded to nearest integer), whereas for players having privacyMode disabled you will receive SETSCRIPTTAGS commands with exact skill values.
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danil_kalina
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by danil_kalina » 05 Sep 2013, 21:59

so, if privacy is ON then BAR is Blue and tooltip has '~'

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Jools
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by Jools » 04 Oct 2013, 15:21

I think that skill-bars are much better to show the skill visually than just numbers. The privacy isn't really that big you know, it only eliminates decimals it seems.

Would it be possible to make some kind of rank insignia system based on these skill values, to have symbols instead of numbers. Would be good to have something like this to the adv.playerslist widget too, because that's what everyone uses I think.
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bibim
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Re: SPADS AutoHost beta release

Post by bibim » 04 Oct 2013, 17:06

Jools wrote:The privacy isn't really that big you know, it only eliminates decimals it seems.
No:
bibim wrote:for players having privacyMode enabled (current default), SPADS only sends an approximate value (rounded to one of: 10,13,16,20,25,30,35,38)
Jools wrote:Would it be possible to make some kind of rank insignia system based on these skill values, to have symbols instead of numbers. Would be good to have something like this to the adv.playerslist widget too, because that's what everyone uses I think.
Yeah I agree it would be cool to have this in the advplayerlist.
Having skill icons/bars or/and numbers is a matter of taste I guess.
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