Experimental mutator v3 (split from BA thread, PART 2)

Experimental mutator v3 (split from BA thread, PART 2)

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Lippy
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Experimental mutator v3 (split from BA thread, PART 2)

Post by Lippy » 03 Feb 2007, 21:16

Foxomaniac wrote:Experimental mutator v3 :

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[TWEAK] Pelican : HP boosted by 40, effective DPS raised to 106, turning rate doubled (a little more then double actually).
[TWEAK] Croc : HP nerfed by 300.
[BUILDLIST] Amphibious complex : Added gimp and spy to core's amphib complex, pelican to arm's amphib complex.
[TWEAK] Luger : Reduced Metal cost by 50.
[TWEAK] Merl : Increased damage per shot by 200.
[TWEAK] Advanced Storage buildings : Adv. Metal storages cost aproximately 400 M while E-storage costs aproximately 350ishM, decerased buildtime of each by 10k.
[TWEAK] Decoy Fusion : Metal cost reduced by 100, buildtime reduced by 2k, info of fusion no longer shown to enemies. - Start using! decoy likes to decoy.
[TWEAK] Fusions : Info no longer shown to enemies - to make decoy fusions use-able.
[TWEAK] Liche : Metal cost reduced by 1k, Energy cost reduced by 5k, buildtime reduced by 4k.
[TWEAK] Underwater Moho Mexes : Costs re-done, they're only slightyl more expensive than their land cousins now.
[TWEAK] Underwater Moho Metal Makers : Costs re-done, only slightly more expensive than their land cousins.
[TWEAK] Underwater Fusions : Again, costs re-done, slightly more expensive then it's land counterpart.
[TWEAK] Ressurection Subs : They are now slightly more efficient then their land counterparts, since they cost 2x more.
[TWEAK] Repair pads : Metal cost halved, buildtime reduced by 10k.
[FIX] Repair pads : Exploit regarding this.
[FIX] Dragon's Teeth : Hitspheres fixed / exploit regarding units squeezing through. (Thanks argh!).
[TWEAK] Metal Makers : Now cost 80 to run, instead of 60, just like old AA values (which caydr changed to piss off Greenfielders o.O - This also balances out Metal generators and the fact that you can't just spam Adv Solars + Metal maker combo and still keep 15 energy).
[TWEAK] Metal Generators : 3k cut off energy cost - aproximately a 37.5 metal decrease if we turned energy to metal.
[TWEAK] Shields : Range doubled.
Or if you prefer .txt : http://froob.iamacup.com/temp/changelog.txt

Actual download if you want to test :

http://froob.iamacup.com/temp/EAv3.sdz
*As Borat* I like!!
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 03 Feb 2007, 21:44

shields range doubled?

jesus dude
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tombom
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Post by tombom » 03 Feb 2007, 21:46

hunterw wrote:shields range doubled?

jesus dude
Haha this isn't a great idea. Maybe 1.25x and actually make them work properly
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LordMatt
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Post by LordMatt » 03 Feb 2007, 21:48

Foxomaniac wrote:Experimental mutator v3 :

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[TWEAK] Metal Makers : Now cost 80 to run, instead of 60, just like old AA values
Or if you prefer .txt : http://froob.iamacup.com/temp/changelog.txt
OTA values are fine here, I don't know why people think it's a good idea to change this. People who rely on a metalmaker economy are very vulnerable to having them all go boom.
Foxomaniac wrote:Experimental mutator v3 :

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[TWEAK] Shields : Range doubled. 
[/quote]
Why?
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Lippy
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Post by Lippy » 03 Feb 2007, 21:56

Found one more imbalance IMO; long range jamming towers:
core: 124/1830 Build time: 9392 Jam distance 760
arm: 119/1750 Build time: 9080 Jam distance: 700

Compared with with lvl1 jamming towers:
core: 109/4791 Build time: 4577 Jam distance: 360
arm: 226/7945 Buil time: 9955 Jam distance: 500 (has stealth)

The long range towers need a LOT less E to build and only a tiny bit more m, yet their jamming distance is twice that of lvl1. (There is some HP difference, but its too small to really take into account)
LordMatt wrote:
Foxomaniac wrote:Experimental mutator v3 :

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[TWEAK] Shields : Range doubled. 
[/quote]
Why?[/quote]

+1
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Foxomaniac
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Post by Foxomaniac » 03 Feb 2007, 22:23

Blame machio for that one =P.
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Machiosabre
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Post by Machiosabre » 03 Feb 2007, 22:25

It's just that nobody builds shields, and if you do bother to make one to protect like a factory or something else well within its radius they still phail horribly.
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MR.D
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Post by MR.D » 03 Feb 2007, 23:43

The added range acts like a buffer for high speed shots, Giving it better "Edge Tolerance".

Meaning that those high speed shots (like Bertha, which it was designed to defend against) have a chance to slow down more, giving the shield a chance to actually deflect incoming Bertha Rounds.

IMO, the E cost per deflected shot needs to go up, and not just a little bit, but like 500-700 E (or even doubled) E additional burn per shot, and this is something that needed to happen long before this range boost.

By the time you would actually build a shield, you have so much excess power that they're inpregnable vs bertha.

Its too bad that Shields can't be repulse based (like they are now, oposed to SOlid hard shields) as well as capacitor based like hard shields were, so they have a charge up time to an extent, making them work more like armor that needs to be repaired instead of a solid state unit.
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Neddie
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Post by Neddie » 04 Feb 2007, 01:38

I'm spread across too many things right now to make my full report, but if you are going to push a line of radical reform, I am going to consider making a case for speeding up all buildtimes and movement... taking BA from droplets of water to a downpour. Faster than XTA is not an accomplishment.

The proposed shield tweak is more reasonable than the one implemented. Metal storage seems fine to me, energy storage may need some work. The LRMT is fine, if weak, as it is. Instigators and Flashes don't seem to need any changes at this moment. Core and Arm amphibious units need to be closer to each other in power, but I may make the case that Core's should be better on the whole.
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Saktoth
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Post by Saktoth » 04 Feb 2007, 09:19

This should clearly demonstrate why the changes were made to shields.
The old shield, after a single volley from a few berthas (note its health).
Image
This ISNT the shield failing from lack of energy, it has a few hundred fusions off screen. It is failing because it cannot properly deflect bertha shots.


The new shield, after a few minutes of vulcan fire (Note the ground).
Image

Thus, the new shield is capable of creating an area truly invulnerable to plasma fire- as long as your energy holds out. Note that the effective area is actually much smaller than the shields visible radius. The reason the plasma projectiles penetrate the shield is quite simple. If they are coming in at a low angle they are deflected downwards, into the ground, rather than upwards, into the sky. Usually, people have to double up on shields in order to make them effective. This is just silly if you ask me.

This isnt a perfect defense, there are lots of ways to overcome it- EMP the shield, bomb the shield, hit his energy etc. Also, if you send in something with a rapid firing plasma weapon (Say, brawlers) this will very quickly drain your enemies energy, as it costs the same energy to deflect a bertha shot as it does for a brawler shot. A single brawler can drain 4 fusions in a matter of seconds, and can create a negative income for up to 8 fusions.
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BDCoolio
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Post by BDCoolio » 04 Feb 2007, 09:35

You make an excellent argument - and the colorful screen shots don't hurt either. :P
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 04 Feb 2007, 10:28

the shield's graphic is kind of misleading then (for both the unmodified and the modded), as the sphere doesn't portray what is protected.

i'd say to fix the shield by increasing the amount of acceleration that it gives to the plasma projectiles, not just by making it all huge.
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Acidd_UK
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Post by Acidd_UK » 04 Feb 2007, 11:04

Just to add that about a month ago, when a shield was EMP'd the shield graphic remained, yet the shied doesnt work when EMP'd. The graphic should reflect that by dissapearing or changing colour...
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NOiZE
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Post by NOiZE » 04 Feb 2007, 11:35

This is split from the BA thread.
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MR.D
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Post by MR.D » 04 Feb 2007, 12:31

I say drop the colored Dome completely, it worked fine for use with the HARD shield system, but its just silly with repulsors.

Besides, it looks like crap with the dome if there are overlapping shields next to eachother.
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Foxomaniac
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Post by Foxomaniac » 04 Feb 2007, 13:35

Lippy wrote:Found one more imbalance IMO; long range jamming towers:
core: 124/1830 Build time: 9392 Jam distance 760
arm: 119/1750 Build time: 9080 Jam distance: 700

Compared with with lvl1 jamming towers:
core: 109/4791 Build time: 4577 Jam distance: 360
arm: 226/7945 Buil time: 9955 Jam distance: 500 (has stealth)

The long range towers need a LOT less E to build and only a tiny bit more m, yet their jamming distance is twice that of lvl1. (There is some HP difference, but its too small to really take into account)
Probably a typo, Fixed.

Arm's L2 jammer now costs 14k E to build while core's takes 12k E.

Oh and :

Shield range reduced to 450, Deflection power increased.

@ Mr.D :

While it's true that the dome is un-needed due to the range ring, it's helpful to know the height of the actual protection.

People seem to like it as well.
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tombom
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Post by tombom » 04 Feb 2007, 15:55

What do you think of making DT's crushable again, or at least allowing Goliaths to crush their own wrecks or something?
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 04 Feb 2007, 16:11

Acidd_UK wrote:Just to add that about a month ago, when a shield was EMP'd the shield graphic remained, yet the shied doesnt work when EMP'd. The graphic should reflect that by dissapearing or changing colour...
That's not doable, you can't make the script react to stuns.
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Pxtl
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Post by Pxtl » 04 Feb 2007, 16:38

KDR_11k wrote:
Acidd_UK wrote:Just to add that about a month ago, when a shield was EMP'd the shield graphic remained, yet the shied doesnt work when EMP'd. The graphic should reflect that by dissapearing or changing colour...
That's not doable, you can't make the script react to stuns.
Does this mean that real shields stay up after stuns?
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Foxomaniac
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Post by Foxomaniac » 04 Feb 2007, 17:04

The other way actually (shield dome visible, shield not working).

Latest CL for test mutator. :

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Experimental Annihilation 3.1 Super Happy Saktoth Edition!

[TWEAK] Shields : Range down to 450, defelction power increased.
[REFURBISH] Seaplane Torpedo Bombers : Changed into gunship-style movement, Fires depth charges now. Metal cost increased by 100, sonar of 175 added (half weapon range).
[TWEAK] L2 Jammers : Fixed screwed up costs (Thanks lippy!).
Last edited by Foxomaniac on 04 Feb 2007, 18:04, edited 1 time in total.
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