Gameplay issues and introduction.

Gameplay issues and introduction.

An "ADVENTURERS" project, seeking to produce a Dune RTS inspired by the efforts of and portrayals by Westwood and Lynch.

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KiviTheBird
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011, 03:37

Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by KiviTheBird » 08 Apr 2011, 22:41

We working on RTS in dune universe. Main features

- HUGE maps in style of david lynch "dune" film. Dark,
depressive violent sands of arrakis planet, storms of sand,
dunes, some debris and rocks(sesmic stable stone plateau is
buildable areas). Collectable resource is spice
melange(fields in sands, long away from main bases)(like in
classic dune, of course)(there will be small and medium maps also for preverts like our team leader but i prefer big and huge for more strategical and clever battles)

- two fractions(atreides and harkonnen) with complete
different tactics and resource collecting systems.

Harkonnen build tree
Image

description
- all structures are available to be built as soon as fortress deployed. you can build any building if enough resources
-Buildings marked with DOT are need separate seismic stable area and acts as center building, they also provide power.
-Cross means it is cap increase building
-special abilities is to the left

Harkonnen are rude industrial dieselpunk nation, tactics are
based on motorized slow heavy armor army, really able to
grind everything under tracks, infantry is support. Powerful
but not universal units.

Atreides build tree
Image
description
- all structures are available to be built as soon as fortress deployed. you can build any building if enough resources
-Buildings marked with DOT are need separate seismic stable area and acts as center building, they also provide power.
-Cross means it is cap increase building
-special abilities is to the left

Atreides are a bit aristochratic-sci-fi military styled,
utilizes tactical infantry, able to fast transport,
supported by medium and light viecles, able to ambush,
intercept and make effective rear and side attacks. Also
uses union to local militarized fremen.

-Resource system is presented in two ways.

Atreides use classic harvester, supported by automated air
carryal transport to transport it to refinery on base. long
collect, high gain. one-three harvesters to field generally.

Harkonnen use special beacon and deploy one-for-field big
harvester. Normally it is slow mowing(a bit more mobile than
a building. in cause of danger(worm, enemy harrashment) can
be lifted in air by built in jet engines. it is hard to
charge so much energy to make such big thing fly, so ability
have long cooldown. resources are transported from harvester
to refinery by small fast automated aircrafts. Small but
constant gain/// each harvester could be upgraded with
additional aircraft docks(more aircraft more money)

-Battle system.

shooting ranges are 3-4 times longer than in CnC series. All
cannons and guns have accuracy spread( balance issue -tanks
able to shoot infantry, but rarely able to precisely hit so
small target with unexplosive ammo(only 1-3 tanks have
explosive ammo, other is armor piersing))

infantry able to cower in rocks, debris, landscape. also
some of them able to hide in sands. There are close combat
infantry presented and long range ones. Some soldiers need
to deploy AntiArmor weapons and stay immobile.
Tanks and other armor have speed depended on landscape,
armor resistances is depended of side, type of weapon...
Also tanks recioeve special critical hits(thread(s) broken,
engine malfunction)...
any side of tanks have special complicated formula of chanse
to get % of damage from weapons, chance to ricoshet, shance
to recieve a critical hit.(for example it is almost useless
to challenge any harconnen heavy tank in front, more simple
will be take it from side or rear)
all units have special abilities and alternate modes of
fire.

Battle tactics on sand and rock is quite different cause on
rocks is ability to use priotective shields(on sand shields
calling sandworms so noone uses it)

also hero units are presented(promotable, unique,
rescurectable for money)

-hostile environment.
sands are slowing vehicles, big groups or big noisy units
also attract sandworm. Sandworm is capable to make high
damage to army, destroy harvesters esc. so player must chose
correct way rock-to-rock, use small groups of units, avoid
theese worms or disorient it in some ways

- build system.
quite different from CnC. There are buildable "stable
seismic areas'' on rock plateau. These areas are rare.
Player can beacon them and call one fortress (or powerplant
for expand bases). Build areas are round, vary in size. Some
are for powerlant refinery and barracks. some for entrie
base.
picture for explanation

Image

(oficial explanation to picture - Patches of aseismic ground
are scattered throughout the map and it is only on them that
we can build bases. Special self-deploying containers are
dropped into these patches. You cannot build outside the HQ
coverage, and it will cover a relatively small area, so you
will not be able to build up all your necessary buildings
near one HQ. This must emphasize the role of territory
control in the gameplay. DonÔÇÖt forget about the DuneÔÇÖs
special ÔÇ£islandÔÇØ map system and the Shai-Hulud creeping in
the sands... it would be interesting.
Note: If the HQ is lost, you will no longer be able to build
structures, and everything you have already built will
either slow down or completely cease to function.
This construction system also includes the use of certain
platforms that are already known to old Dune fans. Here we
slightly changed their initial purpose and remade them for
rapidly deploying bases.)

- Capping system
There are caps to limit vehicles and infantry. Water
resource and money. More water - more units. More money -
more advanced units.
Balance makes player to train medium army to concentrate on
tactics, micromanagement and upgrades(NO stupid rush of 100
devastators, use brain)
Energy is capping ammount of buildings around fortress and powerplant

So only collectable and dynamic resource is spice(money, credits) water and power is just abstract numbers to limit, demanding on special buildings quantity.
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Wombat
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Wombat » 09 Apr 2011, 00:14

dunno if someone told you about it already but there are some extra features you might want to include, like:
-emp
-capture
-ressurect
-'underground' units
-morphing ( resource and/or experience)
-radar jammer
-shields
(few i forgot about probably)

i dont think Dune had these, but maybe you got some new units in mind, who knows.
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SinbadEV
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by SinbadEV » 09 Apr 2011, 00:18

Wombat wrote:(few i forgot about probably)
Seismic sensors would be pertinent to a dune mod.
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KiviTheBird
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011, 03:37

Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by KiviTheBird » 09 Apr 2011, 00:37

Wombat wrote:dunno if someone told you about it already but there are some extra features you might want to include, like:
-emp
-capture
-ressurect
-'underground' units
-morphing ( resource and/or experience)
-radar jammer
-shields
(few i forgot about probably)

i dont think Dune had these, but maybe you got some new units in mind, who knows.

please do not forget. our mod is being develoed at least three years(by different teams...) there were so many changes and revolutions and we finally went to our present conceptions. So changing anythithing is not an option until testing of gameplay. After test we will balance and correct everything not suitable...

-emp
What to emp!? Nothing is emp affected! there no computers or complicated enectronics in dune uniwerse! Just because robots just not killed all humanity in long bloodshed war.
There are only navigators, mentats, and simple electonics to keep progress.

-capture
Not suits gameplay

-rescurrect
Heroes are rescurrectable. One hero to build one hero to promote from unit

-morphing
Nothing to morph. Only one dynamic resource, it is not TA economic system. You can morph your money to units in factories :)

-radar jammer
Not suits gameplay.

-shields
There ARE shields available on rocks. On sand shields attract worms so no one uses them on sand. Read more carefully please



At least repeat - we have all design docs, unit descriptions, balance notes! We will not change anything before serious gameplay test.
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bobthedinosaur
Blood & Steel Developer
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by bobthedinosaur » 09 Apr 2011, 00:52

will infantry be able to ambush each other in the sand?
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Wombat
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Wombat » 09 Apr 2011, 01:10

Read more carefully please
i did, but you just misunderstood the meaning of shield and morphing. but ok, nevermind

btw, your subforum is not visible on the forums front page, under Project Subforums section, dunno if on purpose or not
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Neddie » 09 Apr 2011, 03:32

I'm pretty sure I enabled that. I'll check it again in a bit.
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Google_Frog
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Google_Frog » 09 Apr 2011, 07:20

Looks good but some of it could do with clarification. Assume people have not played Dune games. I have not played Dune but I have read the books and played RA2, a little Tiberium Sun and some of the EA c&c games.

Do you have an English design document? A lot of this is too vague for someone to code.
Collectable resource is spice melange
Does the spice respawn and if so where? I ask this as other c&c games have a system of slowly respawning resources.

Does the line through all the buildings on the tech tree (red for Harkonnen, grey for Atreides) have any meaning?
all structures are available to be built as soon as fortress deployed. you can build any building if enough resources
How are they produced? Same system as RA2?

Gundam is a game which has an open source (I think) construction system that sounds similar to what you want.
Buildings marked with DOT are need separate seismic stable area
Does this mean that only one of these buildings can be built on a single connected piece of stable area?
acts as center building, they also provide power.
Do they enable construction in an area as well as providing power? Just to be sure is the power system the same as every other c&c game?

Gundam has something like this too.
-special abilities is to the left
Are these like generals powers, how are they gained?
shooting ranges are 3-4 times longer than in CnC series
This isn't a useful number as things have different sizes in spring. The best measure of unit range you could give is the average planned range:speed ratio of your units.
nfantry able to cower in rocks, debris, landscape.
What does this do?
Armour stuff
S44 has a directional damage armour system as well as armour piercing damages. It sounds exactly like what you want for tank armour.
Battle tactics on sand and rock is quite different cause on
rocks is ability to use priotective shields(on sand shields
calling sandworms so noone uses it)
Could you let players deploy shields on the sand for an incredibly risky gambit? :lol:

Also ignore Wombat, those features are default in the engine but can be easily ignored. With gadgets there is no reason to implement those features over any other.
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KiviTheBird
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011, 03:37

Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by KiviTheBird » 09 Apr 2011, 08:29

Does the line through all the buildings on the tech tree (red for Harkonnen, grey for Atreides) have any meaning?
no, all buildings are buildable at start. except starport and powerplant - they need separate area.
powerplant is center of expantion base, starport is too big
Do you have an English design document?
translating now
Does the spice respawn and if so where? I ask this as other c&c games have a system of slowly respawning resources.
Yes resources are similar to other CnC games, but fields is much far avay from base. We will soon provide some documentation
How are they produced? Same system as RA2?

Gundam is a game which has an open source (I think) construction system that sounds similar to what you want.

some kind of, but another animation of deployment
Does this mean that only one of these buildings can be built on a single connected piece of stable area?
they acts as center of stable area
Do they enable construction in an area as well as providing power? Just to be sure is the power system the same as every other c&c game?

Yes but seismic stable areas are pre-placed on map. you must find and capture this area, powerplant or fortress will enable building on this area. fortress is only one to build

power system is not the same - power only limits number of buildings on stable area. ONLY one power structure per area!
Are these like generals powers, how are they gained?
Yes. something like. they gained from having fortress or starport or palace
This isn't a useful number as things have different sizes in spring. The best measure of unit range you could give is the average planned range:speed ratio of your units.
we will prowide more detalied information with numbers in future, this text is not design document!
What does this do?
tactical bonuses like protection, firepower, less visibility
Could you let players deploy shields on the sand for an incredibly risky gambit?
Especially i against it, due some gameplay and original story nuances
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yuritch
Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by yuritch » 09 Apr 2011, 10:15

So the fortress and powerplant work a bit like protoss pylons from Starcraft? (as in you can only build near them, and if they are destroyed, nearby buildings lose power and can't function)
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KiviTheBird
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by KiviTheBird » 09 Apr 2011, 10:45

yuritch wrote:So the fortress and powerplant work a bit like protoss pylons from Starcraft? (as in you can only build near them, and if they are destroyed, nearby buildings lose power and can't function)
yes. also they can be build only on seismic stable area. areas are specially marked
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Google_Frog
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Google_Frog » 09 Apr 2011, 11:45

It sounds a bit like stable areas are "area control markers" for that area. It is not that clear.

Am I right in saying that each rocky land area has 1 stable area somewhere near the middle and that once a building with a DOT is placed on this stable spot the owner can then use the rocky area to build normal buildings? It also sounds like the number of buildings on a rocky area is limited to a certain number based on the type of building on the stable area (the power attribute of the building). Do the buildings on the rocky area go off-line if the stable building is destroyed?
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KiviTheBird
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011, 03:37

Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by KiviTheBird » 09 Apr 2011, 11:58

Google_Frog wrote:It sounds a bit like stable areas are "area control markers" for that area. It is not that clear.

Am I right in saying that each rocky land area has 1 stable area somewhere near the middle and that once a building with a DOT is placed on this stable spot the owner can then use the rocky area to build normal buildings? It also sounds like the number of buildings on a rocky area is limited to a certain number based on the type of building on the stable area (the power attribute of the building). Do the buildings on the rocky area go off-line if the stable building is destroyed?
Image
Image

exactly! one area per plateau, one power building. quantity of buildings around it is limited by power of this energy source rarius of build area is constant too


Fortress acts as building providing specal powers, calling for other buildings. Also it is generator and temporary refinery, and place to recruit hero, basic infantry and engineer
Image
Image

powerplant only provides power and build rarius
Image
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by PicassoCT » 30 Apr 2011, 18:15

Didnt the shields in the dune universe fusioned with Lasguns pointed at them? I remeber duncan(not the ghola) using some to blow up harkonnens.

Also, will there be a Addon, once you had great success, which gives us honored matres to play?

Finally, will there be the visions of the future- meaning, a sort of radar, were u can see the future positions of tanks, harvesters and units?

Also, im sorry if this sort of brainstorming interferes with the gamedesign you have in mind, believe me or not, i respect that long, complicated way you went to get a team together, and the hot discussions you fought to agree on every aspect of gameconcept, all that while keeping people together. Such work is maybe even moar impressive then the game itself. Still you shouldnt take your followers, fans and threadwatchers, and forbid them to utter suggestions. It just dissapoints people, who might otherwise easily forgive you not using there idea, help you playtest, and be productive otherwise.
My suggestion: Next time, reply with a "We are thinking about it/Maybee in a later version"
Its strange to here this, but beeing nice is important, even in a flamezvolcano like the springboard.

Wish you everything good.
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Karl
Panzerstahl Developer
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Karl » 15 Jun 2011, 18:28

So i understand correctly Buildings appear from Space dragged by several Aircraft?

Also i am interrested what license it will have, will we able to make mutators of it? Or standalone mods/game of it.

And i dont know where you team comes up with Power Generator but on Dune 2000/3 They have Windtraps
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knorke
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by knorke » 16 Jun 2011, 00:02

KiviTheBird
Last visited: Wed Apr 20, 2011
I guess he already left.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by FLOZi » 16 Jun 2011, 00:10

Wouldn't surprise me if they changed engines back to CnC
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Google_Frog
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Google_Frog » 16 Jun 2011, 07:50

I got the impression that they expected a team of people to materialise and port all their content to Spring and complete the rest of the game. As in people that already knew their way around the engine.

The people who knew how to do things did the usual response; point the newcomers to tutorials. I don't see why they expected people here to do their work for them. Maybe they had false assumptions about the difficulty and work required to make a game on the spring engine from their experience modding a commercial engine.

Edit: Maybe some should contact them, I checked their forums and I think they're looking at Unity 3D now. That engine does not seem appropriate.
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Karl
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by Karl » 16 Jun 2011, 09:24

Those jumpers are slowly pissing me off...
(OMG WE HAVE AWESOME IDEA WOULD YOU DO WORK FOR US?)
2 days later
(... not here... other engine)
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smoth
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Re: Gameplay issues and introduction.

Post by smoth » 16 Jun 2011, 14:00

you now see why I am jaded.
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