Flak issue can others confirm?

Flak issue can others confirm?

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MasterBel2
Posts: 347
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03

Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

I'm not 100% sure of this, and I don't currently have a specific replay to show (but I will try to find one)

To anyone else does it seem that immobile flak (particularly arm) doesn't actually use its whole range?

Also, I just finished building the flak in this game: http://replays.springrts.com/replay/3e8 ... df0c956a9/ and it instantly fired. Any explanation for this? Cost me a bit of time. It could also show something about the flak range - I don't think it actually fired against the liche that attacked me. Not sure though. Is there any explanation for this?

And yes. I will learn to both build more flak and space stuff properly. Hopefully :D
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Armyork:

name = "Phalanx",
sightdistance = 390,

mobileflak = {
range = 775,
},

It is essentially blind. Pair it with a high los unit for best results.

Edit, OHHH you said immobile flak... derp:

armflak:
name = "Flakker",
sightdistance = 525,

armflak_gun = {
range = 775,
},

(same issue basically)
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MasterBel2
Posts: 347
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03

Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Should this really be an issue though, especially when the flak is in my base? I could see the Liche coming from miles away. Or can the flak not actually shoot to full range even when ample radar not provided?
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nixtux
TechA Developer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009, 15:36

Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by nixtux »

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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Oh. People actually use that tag?
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nixtux
TechA Developer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009, 15:36

Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by nixtux »

@forbs all the *A games do.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

TIL :mrgreen:
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MasterBel2
Posts: 347
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

So I have a concrete example: @ 14:30 approx in this replay:
20160921_080812_DeltaSiegeDry_103.sdfz.zip
(530.04 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
aleksey[HiGH] has a flak vehicle on the front line, and seeing the air units coming in he chases them. Even though the banshees are well within its range the flak does not fire. Why?

This is a mod based on BA by Culosburro aka [Troll]Mando aka quakeman2 (memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10969 if you want to confirm that there have been no changes), which was only recently split. Afaik he's made no changes that could be relevant to this. I'm pretty sure and the changelog he's shown me (http://reba.blackholehost.net) suggests this is true. Morover, I see this behaviour in BA aswell.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

I haven't looked, but does BA use 3d targeting/range for flak cannons? If so then that is probably why, because the aircraft literally is out if range, but the 2d circle on the ground doesn't show you the real 3d envelope of the Flak's true range.
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MasterBel2
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Ok that could explain why. Will severely change how I plan about antiair placement. Is there a typical cruising alitude for aircraft (especially bombers?) If so then could there be a second circle that will indicate the range as relevant to the expected altitude of bombers.
Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Ares »

Flak are the best anti structure unit in ba, if you can land planes in an enemy base with flak or mercuries, they will annihilate the base with friendly fire.

Also if you can get your intended target between your flaks and air units you can deal serious dps. I've seen Decay's buzzsaw die in under 10 seconds to 2 flaks firing at aircons behind, it was awesome.
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MasterBel2
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

That is just wrong. Flak shouldn't be able to do that. Targetting shouldn't let it. If it can't fire it can't fire. Why does it even try???
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Ok, lets nip this in the bud. Spring's targeting works perfectly. Period.

If units are misbehaving, that is a mod problem, not an engine problem.

In this case, the AOE from the flak shell is damaging friendly structures because it is shooting at landed enemy aircraft in the base. The thing you should be up in arms about is that flak shells do friendly fire damage.

Edit: Engine, not game -_-
Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Ares »

Flak should be able to do that... friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game, you just didn't notice.

To change a core feature of the game would be as ridiculous as changing the bind for firing at ground or ability to transport enemy commanders.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Ares wrote:Flak should be able to do that... friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game, you just didn't notice.

To change a core feature of the game would be as ridiculous as changing the bind for firing at ground or ability to transport enemy commanders.
Bad gameplay design is bad gameplay design, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

Edit2: Decided to be nice and not rip apart the argument.
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Silentwings
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by Silentwings »

friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game,
+1, natural and it makes players think/cooperate.
Targetting shouldn't let it.
Flak, unlike most units, are set to not care if they deal friendly fire, because they often have to kill a few allied planes in the crush to stop an enemy air attack. Springs targeting doesn't differentiate between a friendly fire that does 1 allied damage and one that does 10k allied damage - its just does/doesn't (which you might reasonably dislike).

Fact that this has amusing consequences that a good player can use to great advantage in very specific situations is something I like - fun to watch, rare, hard to pull off, adds richness to the game. There's a million things like this in BA :)
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MasterBel2
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Ok. I'll be more careful with flak in the future.

I'd still like to know why it immediately fired after being built with no enemy air close, but it's not happened again so I guess it's not much of an issue :)
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