Suggestion

Suggestion

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Reduce com wreckage to 1.5K
Reduce wreckage % of total unit's metal by a substantial amount.
To counter the fact wreckages will be reclaimed much faster not allowing them to pile up as before reduce the reclaim time of wreckages appropriately.
It will still be a huge boost to the economy and be very worthwhile to fight over wreckage.

The commander Metal reduction is to Reduce com self d exploitation in all types and sizes of games.
1.5K is still a very substantial amount making it a bad idea to just throw one away while not being such a huge boost to the economy if you self - d him for the metal(will still be worth it).

Com wreck was once 15k M.
I think a 1.5K wreckage is closer the the ideal Amount than 2.5K.
Just think about it..In all team games Most players always self d th ecommander for wreckage..
Is this really a good game mechanic?
Reducing the wreckage will Also make some expensive T1 stuff more viable.
Right now there is little point in making The expensive T1 stuff in team games since T2 is always just around the corner.


Reducing the overall wreckage M amount percentage is to encourage a slight more aggressive gameplay when it comes to light-medium and onward units and punish aggressive maneuvering a bit less.
Meaning everything above the scout class(since those mostly dont leave wreckage anyway).
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SinbadEV
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Re: Suggestion

Post by SinbadEV »

I always thought "sacrificing" one of your commanders by setting him to assist in the infrastructure construction of another player was a better strategy anyway... anybody ever try it?
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Johannes
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Johannes »

SinbadEV wrote:I always thought "sacrificing" one of your commanders by setting him to assist in the infrastructure construction of another player was a better strategy anyway... anybody ever try it?
No, that's not worth it for anything but possibly the defense capacity.

Best way to go about it is to take enemy units with your commblast though, self-ding at the back of the base is good only for the safety of not having to partially count on your teammates to claim the wreck.
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albator
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Re: Suggestion

Post by albator »

any metal wreakage reduction mean you will use your com like a bomb cause most of the time you need lot of unit to kill it, So that will imply a full rebalance of the game..... you got your answer
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Hmm...
In 1v1s it doesnt matter - com ends.
In FFA games it doesnt matter - com ends.

In big team games it does not take a lot of units to kill him and you cannot atlas bomb with him anymore.
Your only choice would be to walk him in..
That is extremely hard in team games.
I think your argument is invalid and you didnt give it enough thought or perhaps you havent played a big team game lately.

p.s.
1.5k metal is still a lot to just throw away at your enemy.

There will be absolutely no need to rebalance anything.

I wish you'd actually consider the argument before dismissing it, much like you'd expect others to do when you make suggestions.
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Floris
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Floris »

I dont think decrease metal % is needed for all wreckages.

Comwreck is ok to be a little less than 2500m, but more like 2000 if you ask me.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Im not sure if thats enough.
The point is to stop automatic com self d in team games..
I dont think 500 m is enough of a decrease.
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Floris
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Floris »

Even 1500 m wouldNt stop that tactic i m sure
klapmongool
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Re: Suggestion

Post by klapmongool »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:The point is to stop automatic com self d in team games..
In my experience this 'problem' isn't that common in 'normal' team games. Sure, sometimes someone blows a comm. That isn't really a problem though. Apparently you are in games in which almost everyone does it (remember, comm ends..) So my guess is that it happens a lot in a certain type of team game, a type i'm not in a lot. Could you please describe the type of game this happens in (number of players, maps, hosts)?
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

In big team games you always have several people on each team self d their commanders.
They do it to immediately tech up...
almost any 6v6 -> 8v8 game this happens(sometimes as much as half of the comms in each team get self d at the first minutes of the game).
Where it doesn't happen than this change does not matter one bit and changes nothing.

At 1500M people might still self d to tech but at least it wont be so immediate or so common.

Not to mention cases when on the front line, one sometimes makes a small mistake, and loses his com, giving 2.5k M to the enemy.
That's crazy punishment for what are sometimes small mistakes.
You get two commanders exploding at the front by killing each other but one did it a bit closer to his units and now the enemy has 5k M...This is a really bad mechanic imo.
5K M is huge amount of metal at the beginning of the game.

A 1.5k M wreckage would be much more appropriate.

If you agree that blowing up your own commander in team games, just for the metal, is a bad mechanic than any metal beyond the amount required to deter people from just throwing their com away is enough and should not be exceeded.
At 1.5K its still a huge lose to just throw your com away while making self-d commanders for metal less advantageous.

Remember,2.5k Metal change was done, a bit after team com ends was introduced.
It was a guess figure after the wreckage was worth 15k..
A 1.5k Wreckage is a further decrease under all these new circumstances of no atlas bombing and the immediate teching that emerged from the wreckage still being OP.
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Niobium
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Niobium »

There's a couple of concerns with the general idea of reducing com wreck metal:
  • It reduces the risk when using com as a bomb -> more combombs
  • It reduces the reward for killing an enemy commander -> less motivation to attack commanders/armies with a commander
  • It makes teching slower and more difficult -> reduces occurance/feasibility of teching. While you might see this as a positive, devs might see it as too much of a change, given how integral teching is in certain game formats
I'd be interested in what the current devs think, about the idea of reducing com wreck metal and about what the goals of the com/wreck/explosion mechanics are.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Combombs are pretty rare and not half as efficient as they used to be...
Usually its when a player already knows he cant avoid losing his com so he tries to get some enemy units before dropping to 0 HP.
You can't properly combomb with an atlas anymore...
This was a massive change.
klapmongool
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Re: Suggestion

Post by klapmongool »

Thx rumpel for making more clear what you meant. Also, let it be clear that I'm not against lowering comm metal.. though I'm not for an unnecessary change.. I agree with what nio said.

About the games this would be a problem for. As I suspected this applies to the larger teamgames. What you did not mention is on which type of map it occurs. I suspect that it happens primarily on maps in which there are players that are not on a front line. These games are screwed up either way. Because these games have disconnected teams (front line/techers) it doesn't really matter how low you make comm metal, there will always be a problem.

For games in which self-d of comm for teching does not happen a change regarding comm metal would of course make a difference, as nio already argued.

Again, i'm not against a change if needed but let's please make sure we know what we are talking about.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:Combombs are pretty rare and not half as efficient as they used to be...
Usually its when a player already knows he cant avoid losing his com so he tries to get some enemy units before dropping to 0 HP.
You can't properly combomb with an atlas anymore...
This was a massive change.
Sure, the pure combomb is pretty rare these days. But tactical comm explosions are more common. If comm metal is reduced it becomes a lot more profitable to take someone's stumpy army with it. Btw, when unload command is fixed combombs will get slightly more popular again.
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Beherith
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Beherith »

Each 500m reduction would only slow techers by a minute. Pointless.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

What? A minute? what are you even talking about...Why do you even fucking dev BA?
Whatever, I give up.
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Beherith
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Re: Suggestion

Post by Beherith »

6m/sec from extractors + 2m/sec from MM's on the 2 adv solars.
x62.5 seconds = 500 M.

Gota, get out of my subforum, you are no longer welcome here.
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