Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

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Johannes
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Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Johannes » 18 Jun 2011, 20:42

Here's documentation of the gameplay effects of the armorclass changes done in new BAs, which were not written in the shortened changelog most of you only read. I might've missed some meaningful changes so please point such things out if you notice something.

Code: Select all

Subs
All 3 subs have been merged into 1 class. Sub killers used to do extra damage to battle subs, and battle subs did reduced damage to sub killers, this is no longer the case. [size=60]Also I noticed, though not related, subs now have better autoheal than other units unlike before[/size]


Krogoth
No longer takes extra damage from torpedos.


Air units
Gunships
Got +25% hp buff due to compensate ground aa doing full damage to them. Do full dmg vs flak instead of half like they used to.

Ground aa
Used to do reduced damage to gunships, but no longer do. But kill gunships in about the same time as before due to hp change. Blade no longer flak resistant, also gunships now do full damage to flak instead of half like they used to.
Panther kills bladewing in 1 hit, when it took 2 hits before.

T1 fighters
Damage against gunships 90->50
Damage against t1 trans 70->50
Damage against t2 bomber 100->240
Damage against t1 fighter 87->50 (but remember hp change  of fighters here too)

T2 fighters
Damage against gunships 150->100
Damage against t2 bomber 450->350

Seaplane fighters
Damage against gunships 150->100
Some explanation on air unit changes too: The number of armor classes has been reduced here a lot. From having L1FIGHTERS, L2FIGHTERS, L1BOMBERS, L2BOMBERS (these 4 classes are self-explanatory, seaplanes are in l2), GUNSHIPS (all gunships but Blade), HGUNSHIPS (Blade), VTRANS (t1 transports), VRADAR (radar planes), VTOL (cons, t1 scouts, t2 transes, torpedo seaplanes), to having fighters, bombers, and VTOL.
Ground aa mostly did same damage to all these classes, except reduced damage to gunships, and flak vs blade. Fighters on the other hand, had a different damage to almost each class. Now they do the amount of damage to all the new VTOL class units that they did to the old VTOL, and their damage to all fighters and all bombers is taken from the damage they did to either t1 or t2 fighters/bombers class. Some number changes not included because they have no real effect (t2 fighter does less dmg to t1 fighter than before but still kills it in 1 hit, for example)

For the most exact info check http://imolarpg.dyndns.org/trac/balatest/timeline or open up your 7.50+7.31 BAs and compare.
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Niobium
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Niobium » 19 Jun 2011, 03:44

Here's a mostly complete list of changes resulting from 7.31->7.50 armor classes, note that all gunships had their health increased +25%, and that fighter HP was reduced considerably.

[code]Unit Target Change Old Damage -> New
--------------------------------------------------------------
Archangel gunships +32% (113 -> 150)
Archangel gunships +33% (51 -> 68)
Archangel gunships +33% (51 -> 68)
Archangel vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Archangel gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Archer gunships +57% (40 -> 63)
Archer vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Archer gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Ambusher flakboats -69% (1142 -> 345)
Ambusher otherboats -69% (1142 -> 345)
Ambusher flakboats -61% (2256 -> 865)
Ambusher otherboats -61% (2256 -> 865)
Pelican gunships +77% (48 -> 85)
Moray krogoth -50% (1500 -> 750)
Bantha anniddm +82% (200 -> 365)
Bantha anniddm +100% (2000 -> 4000)
Bantha anniddm +33% (270 -> 360)
Brawler flakboats +100% (8 -> 16)
Brawler flaks +100% (8 -> 16)
Big Bertha flakboats -41% (2800 -> 1625)
Big Bertha otherboats -41% (2800 -> 1625)
Chainsaw gunships +61% (86 -> 139)
Dragon's Claw gunships +8% (23 -> 25)
Commander vtrans -31% (110 -> 75)
Commander vtrans -31% (110 -> 75)
Dragonfly krogoth +49900% (30 -> 15000)
Anemone krogoth -50% (500 -> 250)
Detonator krogoth +31900% (300 -> 96000)
Flakker NS vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Flakker NS gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Freedom Fightervtrans -28% (70 -> 50)
Freedom Fighterl1fighters -42% (87 -> 50)
Freedom Fightergunships -44% (90 -> 50)
Freedom Fighterl2bombers +140% (100 -> 240)
Flakker vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Flakker gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Sentry gunships +34% (84 -> 113)
Guardian flakboats -50% (526 -> 263)
Guardian otherboats -50% (526 -> 263)
Guardian flakboats -40% (922 -> 553)
Guardian otherboats -40% (922 -> 553)
Hawk l1fighters -31% (160 -> 110)
Hawk gunships -33% (150 -> 100)
Hawk l2bombers -22% (450 -> 350)
Hawk l1fighters -31% (160 -> 110)
Hawk gunships -33% (150 -> 100)
Hawk l2bombers -22% (450 -> 350)
Jethro gunships +34% (82 -> 110)
Banshee flakboats +200% (3 -> 9)
Banshee flaks +200% (3 -> 9)
Lancet krogoth -50% (3000 -> 1500)
Panther gunships +77% (48 -> 85)
LLT gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Ranger gunships +31% (105 -> 138)
Orcone vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Orcone gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Skeeter gunships +34% (82 -> 110)
Razorback gunships +26% (95 -> 120)
Defender gunships +34% (84 -> 113)
Sabre flakboats +100% (35 -> 70)
Sabre flaks +100% (35 -> 70)
Samson gunships +46% (45 -> 66)
Albatross krogoth -45% (1750 -> 960)
Tornado l1fighters -25% (120 -> 90)
Tornado gunships -33% (150 -> 100)
Skimmer gunships +700% (6 -> 48)
Spider krogoth +5733% (30 -> 1750)
Lurker krogoth -50% (1200 -> 600)
Piranha l3subs -19% (500 -> 400)
Piranha tl -33% (375 -> 250)
Piranha krogoth -75% (1000 -> 250)
Harpoon krogoth -50% (560 -> 280)
Vulcan flakboats -39% (2500 -> 1500)
Vulcan otherboats -39% (2500 -> 1500)
Phalanx vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Phalanx gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Epoch anniddm +78% (140 -> 250)
Epoch anniddm +78% (140 -> 250)
Epoch vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Epoch gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Epoch vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Epoch gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Blade flakboats +100% (140 -> 280)
Blade flaks +100% (140 -> 280)
Bladewing krogoth +3900% (20 -> 800)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +30% (23 -> 30)
Manticore gunships +33% (56 -> 75)
Manticore gunships +33% (56 -> 75)
Manticore vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Manticore gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Rapier flakboats +100% (61 -> 122)
Rapier flaks +100% (61 -> 122)
Shredder gunships +57% (40 -> 63)
Shredder vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Shredder gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Lamprey krogoth -50% (2800 -> 1400)
Behemoth flakboats -66% (1350 -> 450)
Behemoth otherboats -66% (1350 -> 450)
Black Hydra anniddm +71% (221 -> 380)
Black Hydra gunships +34% (93 -> 125)
Black Hydra anniddm +71% (221 -> 380)
Black Hydra anniddm +71% (221 -> 380)
Black Hydra gunships +34% (93 -> 125)
Buzzsaw flakboats -36% (3000 -> 1900)
Buzzsaw otherboats -36% (3000 -> 1900)
Commander vtrans -31% (110 -> 75)
Crasher gunships +34% (82 -> 110)
Cutlass vtrans -67% (53 -> 17)
Cutlass flakboats +98% (53 -> 105)
Cutlass flaks +98% (53 -> 105)
Commander vtrans -31% (110 -> 75)
Jellyfish krogoth -50% (500 -> 250)
Cobra - NS vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Cobra - NS gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Eradicator gunships +61% (130 -> 210)
Supporter gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Supporter gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Exploiter gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Cobra vtrans +25% (200 -> 250)
Cobra gunships +25% (200 -> 250)
Stinger gunships +34% (84 -> 113)
Instigator vtrans -25% (12 -> 9)
Stiletto krogoth +13233% (30 -> 4000)
Intimidator flakboats -33% (3000 -> 2000)
Intimidator otherboats -33% (3000 -> 2000)
Karganeth gunships +33% (112 -> 150)
Karganeth gunships +33% (112 -> 150)
Karganeth gunships +33% (112 -> 150)
Krogoth anniddm +62% (200 -> 325)
Krogoth anniddm +120% (2500 -> 5500)
Krogoth anniddm +60% (500 -> 800)
LLT gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Dragon's Maw gunships +525% (4 -> 25)
Slasher gunships +33% (74 -> 99)
Messenger gunships +31% (105 -> 138)
Searcher gunships +34% (82 -> 110)
Punisher flakboats -50% (578 -> 289)
Punisher otherboats -50% (578 -> 289)
Punisher flakboats -39% (926 -> 556)
Punisher otherboats -39% (926 -> 556)
Pyro gunships +1100% (1 -> 12)
Pulverizer gunships +34% (84 -> 113)
Typhoon krogoth -45% (1750 -> 960)
Copperhead vtrans +33% (150 -> 200)
Copperhead gunships +33% (150 -> 200)
Voodoo l1fighters -27% (110 -> 80)
Voodoo gunships -28% (140 -> 100)
Scrubber gunships +700% (6 -> 48)
Shark l3subs -19% (500 -> 400)
Shark tl -33% (375 -> 250)
Shark krogoth -75% (1000 -> 250)
Leviathan tl -33% (750 -> 500)
Leviathan l2subs +66% (150 -> 250)
Leviathan krogoth -66% (1500 -> 500)
Snake krogoth -50% (1200 -> 600)
Termite gunships -47% (210 -> 110)
Titan krogoth -50% (3000 -> 1500)
Urchin krogoth -50% (560 -> 280)
Toaster flakboats -72% (1244 -> 346)
Toaster otherboats -72% (1244 -> 346)
Toaster flakboats -61% (2103 -> 807)
Toaster otherboats -61% (2103 -> 807)
Vamp l1fighters -25% (116 -> 86)
Vamp gunships -33% (120 -> 80)
Vamp l2bombers -22% (265 -> 206)
Vamp l1fighters -25% (116 -> 86)
Vamp gunships -33% (120 -> 80)
Vamp l2bombers -22% (265 -> 206)
Avenger vtrans -28% (70 -> 50)
Avenger l1fighters -42% (87 -> 50)
Avenger gunships -44% (90 -> 50)
Avenger l2bombers +96% (100 -> 196)
Decade gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Decade gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
Juggernaut anniddm +33% (225 -> 300)
HLLT gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
HLLT gunships +66% (3 -> 5)
KrogTaar anniddm +72% (200 -> 344)
SAM gunships +56% (72 -> 113)
Marauder gunships +77% (48 -> 85)
Pack0 gunships +56% (95 -> 149)
Serpent tl -33% (750 -> 500)
Serpent l2subs +66% (150 -> 250)
Serpent krogoth -66% (1500 -> 500)
[/code]
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gonpost
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by gonpost » 19 Jun 2011, 04:43

Why would I ever build blade gunships without their flak resistance? The blade flak resistant gunship is now just the (overpriced) blade gunship.

Why would I ever build sub killers if I can just build regular T2 subs for 1.5x the cost, but have at least 2x the damage and 2x the HP? The sub killer is now just the cheap sub (and it's never the good option to build).
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Wombat
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Wombat » 19 Jun 2011, 09:07

actually blade is op now coz of its new uber hp (it got buffed vs everything, not only flak) + epic speed (well op as long as u can afford them ofc, but they are much better than brawlers)
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Yuri
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Yuri » 19 Jun 2011, 17:49

gonpost wrote:Why would I ever build blade gunships without their flak resistance? The blade flak resistant gunship is now just the (overpriced) blade gunship.

Why would I ever build sub killers if I can just build regular T2 subs for 1.5x the cost, but have at least 2x the damage and 2x the HP? The sub killer is now just the cheap sub (and it's never the good option to build).
Exactly, removing the armor classes was really a bad move. Intuitive units are one thing but screwing the balance is not necessary.
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Wombat
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Wombat » 19 Jun 2011, 17:52

removing the armor classes was really a bad move. Intuitive units are one thing but screwing the balance is not necessary.
hmmm, lets think what was i talking about all the time... hmmm....
Last edited by Wombat on 19 Jun 2011, 19:26, edited 1 time in total.
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gonpost
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by gonpost » 19 Jun 2011, 19:05

Mmm ok wombat I'll take your word for it. I'm still complaining about the T2 subs though.
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Johannes
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Johannes » 20 Jun 2011, 00:04

Wombat wrote:actually blade is op now coz of its new uber hp (it got buffed vs everything, not only flak) + epic speed (well op as long as u can afford them ofc, but they are much better than brawlers)
Brawlers got more hp and more dps for cost still, Blade has speed and fast buildtime. Also less vulnerable to flaks aoe etc.
I'd say the 2 are now pretty nicely balanced between each other, depends on the situation whichever is better worth it. All gunships are better now though when fighters take twice as long to kill them.
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Wombat
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Wombat » 20 Jun 2011, 00:21

depends on the situation whichever is better worth it.
well yes, brawlers are better for defending. but according to the situation i mentioned in another thread i think, blades are extremely hard to stop. basicly, flying straight forward into enemy base allows player to rape nanos/t2 mms very easly, even without aiming. another problem is that blade gets pretty important advantage when engaging fighter screen coz of its speed and fact that fighters sometimes need to turn around (pretty slowly). without fighters, its almost impossible to stop them since t1/t2 aa manage to hit them only once (with pretty shitty result coz of extra hp (+blade speed))
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aegis
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by aegis » 20 Jun 2011, 03:27

Wombat wrote:without fighters, its almost impossible to stop them since t1/t2 aa manage to hit them only once (with pretty shitty result coz of extra hp (+blade speed))
five or six defenders singlehandedly killed a few blades attacking me a game or two ago, even after the blades started targeting the AA. I didn't even start building AA until I saw the blades flying out of the enemy base.

...so now you can nuke+stun a krog?
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Wombat
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Re: Summary of armorclass change effects from 7.31 -> newer

Post by Wombat » 20 Jun 2011, 04:30

well, duh, i managed to win multiple porcy as hell dsd games with blind blade rush, so...
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