Looking for: Water games

Looking for: Water games

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MrCucumber
Posts: 50
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 19:09

Looking for: Water games

Post by MrCucumber »

Hey everybody, MrCucumber here

I was just wondering if anyone would like to play some water games with me, seeing as I want to get better at sea in BA, and it seems to have more choices then land. Also if anyone has some good map ideas for water only games. I am also cool with water 1v1's.

Also what I consider a water map: Shore2Shore, ExpandedTropics, Coast to Coast, EternityOcean.

Any other water maps are welcome and I will put them to the list.

So who is down to get their hands wet! xD

People who want to play:
Sucky_Lord
Ginekolog

Players who are recommended to play against:
Keijj0
(not sure if I spelled it right, did it off the top of my head)



Suggested maps:
EternityOcean
Coast to Coast remake v2
Shore2Shore_remake-v01
ExpandedTropics
sands of war
Anteer Strait
Ring Atoll
Evad River Confluence
Gods of War
Last edited by MrCucumber on 28 Jan 2011, 16:38, edited 6 times in total.
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Sucky_Lord
Posts: 531
Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 16:29

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Sucky_Lord »

Sure ill give you some games. Though if you want to learn real skill you want to speak to Pullapitko or Gonpost.
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Beherith
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Beherith »

Ginekolog is also great at sea. Recommended map is sands of war.
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Sucky_Lord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 16:29

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Sucky_Lord »

Ginekolog is good at everything ^_^
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gonpost
Posts: 77
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 00:43

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by gonpost »

Yes I'm a fairly good choice, however I haven't been playing spring for a few months. I'm busy IRL. I still lurk, however. :p

But I'll be back sometime... It seems that I play for a few months every year and then disappear again.

Also, there's a large difference between typical sea play in a typical game (like sea in 4v4 small supreme) and 1v1 in something like coast to coast. You should play a variety of maps to get good.

Since I'm not going to play games with you at the moment, here are a few quick pointers off the top of my head:
-The first ship out of your T1 shipyard should almost always be a corvette. The only reason to build a con first is if you KNOW FOR SURE that there are no enemies in your sea. Furthermore, you should always attack your opponent immediately with that corvette, unless you can get out more than 1 corvette somehow (nearby rocks, etc)
-Micro managing is hugely important for T1 sea, especially at the start of the game. This should be a priority when you learn sea.
-If one of your allies is starting core air, ask for paralyzers! With three of them, you can easily take the sea in the first few minutes of a game. They are seriously one of the most helpful things an ally can give you. They're fairly rare, however, so don't plan ahead to fight them. If you do, it's really just bad luck and do your best to make a skeeter or two ASAP. But always use them if you can.
-If you ever attack me with skeeters I will laugh at you and then kill you. Only use them for AA.
-Know the strengths and weaknesses of every unit at your shipyard. You'll use all of them.
-Ships are slow to turn, but pretty fast when they're moving.
-Ships have a longer range than hovers (in general). That means you should not hug hovers. Keep ships at maximum range so they can pick off the hovers. You shouldn't lose a single ship that way.
-Ships are expensive. Each ship you build is a large investment, so treat it as such.
-T2 AA ships are amazing in pairs.
-Spread ships out both for pathing purposes and AOE damage purposes
-Don't forgot about amphib factories! There's nothing more glorious than owning a sea and then invading land with 30 tanks that you just built at your 3 amphib factories. Have 2 naval engineers guard each. Underwater tanks cost a lot of E to build. I do this on small supreme all the time. You can build a millennium to clear the shore, AA to ward off bombers, and then build your factories. Whatever the situation calls for: do it.
-Don't forget about jammer ships. They conceal amphib factories very well. They also conceal fleets that are sneaking around the back well. They also have a very large radius.
-Don't forget about hovers. Has your enemy built a shit ton of torpedo launchers? Make some hovers to clear the way, then send in the ships.
-Don't let your ships get dgunned. It's depressing and hilarious.
-Seaplanes aren't too useful. I generally don't use them unless I'm playing FFA and I'm trapped in the sea. Use T2 ships and amphib units instead. If you really need air, try to build T2 air on some nearby land.
-HOWEVER, sonar planes ARE very useful. Information is king in spring!
-Keep your ships moving. I'll often give my ships orders to go back and forth about 5 times near a shore while they're attacking so that I can go micro something else. That way, there's less of a chance of them dying while I'm gone.
-Core's amphib tanks are better (or at least more useful) than arm's. However, I prefer arm's ships. You should play both factions as sea to find out which you prefer.
-Plasma batteries do a lot of damage against ships. Avoid them or out range them. If you can't out range them (it's a big bertha or something), request air support from a team mate and support him as well as you can. I play FFA a lot, and BB's are the bane of my existence while I'm in the sea.
-Team play is extremely useful in the sea. If you and another can team up on one factory, you should do it. Keep in mind who's microing the offensive force though. I get worried if it's not me. :p
-Figure out a good starting strategy for sea. You'll usually want at least two underwater mexes and 2 tidals before you build your shipyard. I build a 3rd tidal and a sonar after finishing the shipyard, and then I have my comm guard the shipyard for the first ship or two.
-Be aggressive in sea. Let's say you and your opponent each made a corvette in the beginning and each is going to the other's base. I know that we're both good players when they pass each other up and continue on to the enemy base and every body dies. Lots of lulz. Hopefully, however, you'll continue to the enemy base and your opponent will double back and follow you. You shouldn't run in to anything deadly if you both started out with 1000 metal other than the comm (so don't get dgunned near the shore). So you can quickly destroy his tidals, and then try to either kill the corvette that has now caught up to you, or self D yours if you are going to lose so you don't give him the M. If you destroy his tidals, you'll be way ahead of him because he won't be able to build anything else until he rebuilds them, and by that time you'll already have at least two more mexes made from the con ship that you've sent out, and another corvette almost finished and ready to fend off his counter attack.

Oh, and there is one rule that I virtually always follow whether I'm on sea or land: Always have at least one unit somewhere expanding your permanent econ (so excluding reclaiming). Even if that means you've just got 1 kbot building windmills, that's fine.

That's about all I've got for now. Enjoy and have fun! :D
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Jazcash
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Jazcash »

Good stuff Gonpost, I'll agree with all of it apart from Seaplanes. I find Seaplane bombers awesome due to their epic crash 'sploshon.
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gonpost
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 00:43

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by gonpost »

Yeah Jazcash, they're useful at the right times. I just find that the ~2500M investment in the factory, and then the E investment in the planes themselves can be somewhat steep unless you're in late game. In my experience, it's most often more effective to have a team mate build some T2 planes and use those instead.

But don't get me wrong, I love my swarms of 200 seaplane bombers when I can get them.

That's just my 2 cents. :p

Oh, also.
-Use your AA ships to take out your enemy's fighter screen. At the least, you'll force his screen further back in land, which lets you invade and bomb more easily.
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very_bad_soldier
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 01:10

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by very_bad_soldier »

Do you compush at sea? Personally I would say do not cause com is so slow underwater and cant defend himself. But I barely win sea.
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gonpost
Posts: 77
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 00:43

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by gonpost »

Assuming you're asking me, I generally do not. The comm's most useful as a builder. However, there are a few maps where I will com push and assign a con ship to the factory.

Generally speaking, a map for comm pushing is when there are a lot of little islands all over with mexes on them. You basically need amphib cons. Obviously hovers are better for that, but you can't start with hovers.

Using my comm offensively near water is usually a case-by-case basis.

Oh, and if I can, I usually blow the comm once I get T2 sea because he's not useful any more. Naval engineers build really fast, and they don't have 2500M inside of them waiting to be eaten. :p
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Pxtl
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Joined: 23 Oct 2004, 01:43

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Pxtl »

What about the skeeter rush? I've seen a lot of players do terrific damage by starting skeeters and chewing up the tidals instead of starting 'vette.

Either way, though, if you're giving a guide to sea you should probably start with teh basic things like using the Comm properly - comm can't attack under water, but he's still an important part of your defense since he can repair and capture.

Also, because of the incredible power of the T2 naval eng: the T1 lab is useless once you get T2. Reclaim it, and the rest of your T1 crap. T2 naval eng can build your T1 stuff if you change your mind and is the most powerful nanolathe in teh game.
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Wombat
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Wombat »

tbh only maps where skeeter rush is useful are ssb and ... this hunterw map i forgot name, water on the sides, land is N vs S >>

@ seaplanes - only arm got nice crash explosion. probably thats why i dont remind myself even doing core seaplanes D:
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Pxtl
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Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Pxtl »

Wombat wrote:tbh only maps where skeeter rush is useful are ssb and ... this hunterw map i forgot name, water on the sides, land is N vs S >>

@ seaplanes - only arm got nice crash explosion. probably thats why i dont remind myself even doing core seaplanes D:
I assume Sands of War would be on that list - some friends of mine and I played that repeatedly and we eventually gave up out of boredom because the game never got past the skeeter rush stage.
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Wombat
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Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Wombat »

well, actually no its not, coz u can just make llt and skeeters are useless. im actually suprised u make ships on SoW. compushing and hovers/bomber rush were always more entertaining :D
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Johannes
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Joined: 17 Sep 2010, 15:49

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Johannes »

Yeah, the first corvette or llt prevents skeeter from doing any damage to your base. And even if it kills a tidal, it's still ok since you probably built more mexes than him, or con 1st (otherwise how did you let it do any damage). But if you do skeeter attack yourself and theres an opportunity to kill something, prioritise over keeping it alive since you really don't want to give the wreck.

It's still a useful unit on SoW, to scout at start and for hunting cons that go sucking rocks.

And this always start with corvette, isn't always true, depends on map. Most maps have more starting options than that. And in teamgames whether someone will share you some m.
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Aether_0001
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 03:41

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Aether_0001 »

Anteer Strait
Ring Atoll
Evad River Confluence
Gods of War

All good water maps, there's remakes all over the place if you look hard enough. I have them, if they're not anywhere else.

OTA FTW
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gonpost
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 00:43

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by gonpost »

Pxtl wrote: What about the skeeter rush? I've seen a lot of players do terrific damage by starting skeeters and chewing up the tidals instead of starting 'vette.

Also, because of the incredible power of the T2 naval eng: the T1 lab is useless once you get T2. Reclaim it, and the rest of your T1 crap. T2 naval eng can build your T1 stuff if you change your mind and is the most powerful nanolathe in teh game.
I have seen players do it too. But your argument is "Well skeeters can do just as good of a job as corvettes", but my argument is "corvettes can take out tidals AND have a chance at killing other things while they're out there". That's the difference. A single corvette kills a ton of skeeters. Also, your comm can heal faster than a skeeter damages.

I wholeheartedly agree with your second comment. I'm a big fan of reclaiming, as not enough people do it. I often send out an army of T1 ships, then hovers, switch to T1 subs, then T2 ships, etc. It keeps the enemy on his toes because he's just guessing what you'll send next and can't prepare well.

Johannes wrote: And this always start with corvette, isn't always true, depends on map. Most maps have more starting options than that. And in teamgames whether someone will share you some m.
This is true. If someone shares you M, I'd build more than 1 corvette. :p

But seriously, in tangerine if I start sea, I usually pump out a destroyer first. You can start by a 500M rock and that's enough, and the destroyer can keep the other player totally out of the water. So there are definitely reasons to build things other than corvettes first.

My own judgement in a game has final say over any sort of "rule" I could possibly write down. I'm just trying to write down what you should do for a majority of the time.
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ginekolog
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 13:49

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by ginekolog »

Hey, i am up for it, 1v1 or bigger also ofc.

Sea is decided much faster than land imo, cause on land com + static defense protect you. Sea has weak static and weak comm - once u loose key battle u loose. too bad imo.

T1 units:
dest > subs
vets > dest
subs > vets

So mixing is vital and really delicate.

Hovers > amphibs
T2 sea - only bombers are worth it, maybe gunships at start.

Against sea player i like to start with 3mex 2 tidal and 2 scouts. Knowing your enemy build is key factor, i keep scouts alive and harras tidal and cons. Corvete or cons is next to build. Fast sub is fail.
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babbles
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008, 02:30

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by babbles »

greenriver/bluecomet are good 1v1 sea maps
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Wombat
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by Wombat »

ginekolog wrote: subs > vets
in last release vets own subs x)
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MrCucumber
Posts: 50
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 19:09

Re: Looking for: Water games

Post by MrCucumber »

Burn the bot, Burn it with fire!

It gave me false hope that someone wanted to water 1v1 :(
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