Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

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yanom
Posts: 323
Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 23:34

Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by yanom »

So, I start a 1v1 vs. KAIK. I'm CORE, enemy ARM. I build three solars, three mexes and a vehicle fac. I start a buildloop on the fac with some light tanks, a med tank or two and a builder (builder first in line). Then I build more mexes, more solars, and just generally try to expand. I send my light tanks on raiding missions to try to kill enemy mexes.

Then the enemy shows up with a whole bunch of assorted kbots and pwns me. Where did I go wrong?
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Echo419
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010, 14:09

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Echo419 »

hmm, one option is to take a look at the AI's build qeue you can see all their movements in the replays.

As for build order, Mexes before solars, also when the kbot plant is built you can always throw out a con or two to expand, never let the com idle, at the start of the game he should be building alot or reclaiming.

if the enemy is attacking with scouts (as they can sometimes) this is also a popular PvP move to cripple someones econ early on, it might be worth while to put up an LLT perhaps, or keep the com around the base to begin with.


remember the com/cons can always support the factory you have up to churn out units faster just gotta becareful not to e/m stall.
(e/m bleed controll comes with stall controll, focusing on having the basics of early econ down will get you up and running much faster)

As for what else i can say, notmuch really im not brilliant but i do tend to watch and listen when i can.

(wrong forum too, why content creation?)
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knorke
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by knorke »

upload a replay.
spring\demos\
dont pause during game as in current spring version this breaks replays.
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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 08:44

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by KDR_11k »

Did you assist your factory with your com?
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yanom
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 23:34

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by yanom »

Doing all those things.... Is building kbots better than vehicles ?
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Sucky_Lord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 16:29

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Sucky_Lord »

use nano turrets
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by hoijui »

the first kbot army that turns up can usually be fended of by the com with dgun (do not use the com alone, or it will likely still fail till it gets all of them). best ways to not be defeated by KAIK in early game:
* defend with com+dgun
* raid their mexes and stuff
* distract its units, by letting them follow one of your scouts till the other side of the map
* micro your units well (much more effective then vs humans. for example, having a few stumpies guarded by cons, staying at max range in front, and using flashes at the back of their army)
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Karl
Panzerstahl Developer
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Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Karl »

hoijui wrote:
* distract its units, by letting them follow one of your scouts till the other side of the map
I would prefer at start at the Game building Kbot lab as they are cheaper
and quicker to build

try with the fleas unit 2-3

then chase them later if you unit general strength overpowers they current unit troops
yanom wrote:Doing all those things.... Is building kbots better than vehicles ?
Well they are cheaper faster to build and got less health
atleast usefull on game beginning
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Beherith
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Beherith »

Make sure to assist your lab with some other things, build an extra constructor at start, and have it assist your lab. This will build units twice as fast.
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Wombat
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Wombat »

make scouts, attack AI's lab with them. AI will dgun own lab, gg, u win.
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yanom
Posts: 323
Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 23:34

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by yanom »

well, played 2 more games today. Still lost but building nanoturrets help me put up a better fight. Should I try playing ARM? I heard that the CoRe's better firepower made it better for newbies, is that true?
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slogic
AI Developer
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008, 19:03

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by slogic »

Why did you start with KAIK? Try RAI or AAI, they are easier.

Do what Wombat told :) Also KAIK likes to redirect its hole army when harassing with a single unit, move them out while moving your army directly into the base. This is a winning strategy against KAIK.
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Jazcash
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Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Jazcash »

There's plenty of simple ways to beat AI's:
  • Rush loads of fleas and watch him dgun everything.
  • Try and comnap him
  • Com drop him and build LLT all around his base
  • Play well
  • Make a porcy base and rush T1 bombers
  • EMP and Capture all his units
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JohannesH
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 12:43

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by JohannesH »

What map(s) are you playing?

Yes you can abuse the AIs shortcomings but maybe it's more rewarding to actually improve your play.

A simple start buildorder, and guideline how to play:

Start 2 mex, 2 solars, vehicle lab.
Queue 1 scout (send to annoy enemy, try not to lose it but drive around with it), then a constructor (send to build mexes), few more scouts, then light tanks.
Comm builds a 3rd solar (or wind, if it's strong on the map) while the constructor is making, then assists lab. If you notice you're e stalling at any point build more energy building with comm.

From then on try to see with scouts if the enemy has more or less expansions than you. Try to kill those expansions so that you're subtly ahead. If you have more mexes then you don't need to attack as fast (still do if its open), let the army size difference grow for a moment.

Then when your metal starts to rise so that you're not stalling, build more constructors. 2nd con should build mexes, 3rd should start a row of energy buildings, 4th makes a nano. Always try to keep your metal storagge low, invest in economy soon enough.

Stick to making gators & weasels until pretty long with core, then it's map/situation dependant what you should transition into. Getting airlab and bladewings is 1 decent choice.

You can fine-tune it a lot, once you know how the game works better, but its shold be an ok thing to start with. Experiment with the timings when you get different stuff, and see what works.

Also have good radar coverage at all times.

This turned out pretty long, hopefully it's helpfull to people!
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Sucky_Lord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 16:29

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Sucky_Lord »

Jazcash wrote:[*]Play well
I wouldn't call that a necessity for beating the AI xD
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yanom
Posts: 323
Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 23:34

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by yanom »

ok, will try those tactics. Still, what should I pick, core or arm?
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klapmongool
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by klapmongool »

yanom wrote:ok, will try those tactics. Still, what should I pick, core or arm?
Doesnt matter, both are good.
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Tronic
Posts: 75
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 03:21

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Tronic »

KAIK expands very aggressively, meaning that you will generally lose if you sit at your base building stuff. Raid her early, raid her a lot and raid her all the time. If you do it right, this should end the game quickly. If possible, reclaim/rez all wrecks.

See if you can make more units early game by building wind instead of solar, building only two of your three mexes, not building a conbot at all, etc. If this helps you win the game early, it doesn't matter than KAIK had more mexes.

Like someone said, KAIK likes to group most of her army and do a very large attack to your base instead of defending her expansion or base (even though there will be new units being built in the base). Unfortunately this is somewhat difficult to exploit because once she has those units, they will go to your base and kill all your stuff (unless you use your army defending against that). I have tried porcing but generally you will end up with about three mexes, while KAIK has the rest of the map and you have no way of expanding, and the she will quickly overrun your porc (yes, even L2 porc).

If you don't end it early game (as I recommend), you can still have some advantage if you have been raiding properly. KAIK builds a lot of L1 facs and mexes. If you kill the mexes and the expansion cons soon enough, KAIK will bleed resources that you can spend on tanks from your only factory, com/con/nano assisted, and then finish the game.

An alternative strategy is very fast teching to L2 and winning with superior units. This is only possible on maps with plenty of resources because you will have to have L2 up and running before KAIK's first attack, as you won't have ANY L1 fighting/defending units. This strategy is 100 % based on the fact that KAIK never attacks early (at least not in its current version).

Also, KAIK is notoriously weak against air, sea and various other "special" attacks.

I'd hope for KAIK to be developed in the following areas:
- Single scout/flash raids (especially early game, but also to get any unprotected mexes)
- Proper use of unit types other than kbots and vecs
- Use of nukes and other special buildings
- Using nanos to boost build power rather than building more facs all the time
- Reclaim my mexes before building her own mex next to them (the mex built later will not be able to extract anything)
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tacho
Posts: 37
Joined: 02 Feb 2008, 20:15

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by tacho »

Is KAIK so strong?
AI named something like "232" (not remember) frightens me much stronger...
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Wombat
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Balanced Annihilation - why do I lose to the AI?

Post by Wombat »

there is no strong AI. they basicly send every type of unit 1:1 ratio forward and... well they just send it. but, tbh, we played 2v14 vhard AI and it was very entertaining game compared to regular 8v8dsd (sic)
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