Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Requests for features in the spring code.

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Charadin
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011, 14:00

Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Charadin » 03 Nov 2011, 15:24

Because i remembered a great name called "populous the beginning"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populous:_The_Beginning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydi-NWgbUkQ

i suggest the idea of Spherical map like this game.

it should open new tactic and fun on a little moon fight, where no more nook exist.

it need build a new map mannagement (camera movement, center of gravity and no more a gravity direction. and switch between "flat" and "spherical" depend of the map file.

the texture and metal maps will need the UV cut

but the heigtmap can be a Polar coordinate system.



sry my bad english.
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Columbus
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Columbus » 03 Nov 2011, 15:32

This has been discussed here many times, just use the search function.

Someone should make the "monthly topic rotation list" and sticky it.
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Charadin
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Charadin » 03 Nov 2011, 15:36

sry, i used search funtion, look like not enought, my bad.
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smoth
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by smoth » 03 Nov 2011, 15:40

would require major rewrites.
no one wants to do it.
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Charadin
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Charadin » 03 Nov 2011, 15:51

i don't suggest to rewrite entire system who will manage both. keep the old "flat" stuff. add a new who mannage spherical, and when load the map switch between the both system.

don't need to rewrite, just add; if sph├®rical -> spherical system, else -> old normal system.

1 value, and a new system, but not a rewrite. you don't need both in one system.
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Columbus
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Columbus » 03 Nov 2011, 16:00

EVERYTHING depends on the coordinate system, just as good as suggesting to switch between two spring applications depending on map.
I'd imagine most widgets/gadgets would be broken also.

BUT, feel free to make the modifications yourself :P
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smoth
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by smoth » 03 Nov 2011, 16:24

Charadin wrote:i don't suggest to rewrite entire system who will manage both. keep the old "flat" stuff. add a new who mannage spherical, and when load the map switch between the both system.

don't need to rewrite, just add; if sph├®rical -> spherical system, else -> old normal system.

1 value, and a new system, but not a rewrite. you don't need both in one system.
that's nice, see my prior post.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by KaiserJ » 03 Nov 2011, 17:57

would be cool; but as these dudes said, would be an incredible amount of work

welcome to the forums!
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smoth
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by smoth » 03 Nov 2011, 18:48

needs more garwar and mazecraft kaiser!
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by zwzsg » 03 Nov 2011, 18:57

Charadin wrote:i don't suggest to rewrite entire system who will manage both. keep the old "flat" stuff. add a new who mannage spherical, and when load the map switch between the both system.

don't need to rewrite, just add; if sph├®rical -> spherical system, else -> old normal system.

1 value, and a new system, but not a rewrite. you don't need both in one system.
Oh my god, just by using the if - else design pattern you elegantly solved what caused Spring dev so many headaches for so many years! And your solution costs only one variable! You're genius!

Give this guy immediate access to the repository, the code-fu is strong in this one!
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KaiserJ
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by KaiserJ » 03 Nov 2011, 20:14

garwar will likely be a character in mazecraft :mrgreen:
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by AF » 03 Nov 2011, 20:18

Populous maps aren't spheres, they're actually square, but the rendering is such to give the illusion that they are spherical.
Once someone implements 'doghnut maps' then a little visual trickery is all that's needed.
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zwzsg
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by zwzsg » 03 Nov 2011, 20:39

AF wrote:Populous maps aren't spheres, they're actually square, but the rendering is such to give the illusion that they are spherical.
Once someone implements 'doghnut maps' then a little visual trickery is all that's needed.
With a little Lua it's easy to teleport units from one edge to the opposite, as if the edges were connected.

See the middle corridors of Knorke's WakkaWakka for exemple.

But I doubt Charadin would be satisfied with that.
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Charadin
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Charadin » 03 Nov 2011, 21:07

zwzsg wrote: Oh my god, just by using the if - else design pattern you elegantly solved what caused Spring dev so many headaches for so many years! And your solution costs only one variable! You're genius!

Give this guy immediate access to the repository, the code-fu is strong in this one!
zwzsg wrote: But I doubt Charadin would be satisfied with that.
Of course it's more complicated... but i am not sure to like read you.

you just free disrespect and said i am Dumb.

I have a job, it's not dev, but i know 2 how the result of 10 000 hours can look like easy to not concerned people.

you are just a hateful person.

if i would make the job i should had posted an entirely code or at least an architecture.


for what i know wakka map teleporter had the problem of the LOS you did't see anything of the nextdoor.
AF wrote:Populous maps aren't spheres, they're actually square, but the rendering is such to give the illusion that they are spherical.
Once someone implements 'doghnut maps' then a little visual trickery is all that's needed.
look like a very clever shorcut, far more light and fast, what we wait for try ?
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knorke
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by knorke » 03 Nov 2011, 21:16

for what i know wakka map teleporter had the problem of the LOS you did't see anything of the nextdoor.
But that makes it so trolltastic! Would be possible to set LOS of enemy units on the other mapside manually by calculating how much of LOS of your units overlaps to the other side. One could use even more Lua to only draw a circular part of the map. Then maybe draw more terrain cleverly wrapped around it and draw units "mirroed" from one side to the other but I dont think that works with horses.
what we wait for try ?
for someone to do it.
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smoth
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by smoth » 03 Nov 2011, 22:11

smoth wrote:would require major rewrites.
no one wants to do it.
I have given you an answer already.
Charadin wrote:you are just a hateful person.
You should actually get to know the community before you lay judgement like that.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by AF » 03 Nov 2011, 23:02

Because there are problems preventing it. We can do the lua trickery employed in the pacman map as Zwszg suggested but it would no give us seamless transitions.

For example, if you are at the edge of the map, you would:
  • Need to render the other side of the map adjacent
  • Allow units to cross seamlessly without teleports or jumps
  • Be able to issue commands that span both edges
  • Account for area commands on the edge
  • Allow projectiles to cross over the edges
  • Let the pathfinder know to cross over the edge
  • Line up the heightmaps in such a way that you don't end up with a thin band at the boundary making it obvious where you've joined the map and don't want a thin gap where the heights mismatch.
  • Account for large buildings on small maps where a flat base on a curved surface leads to unusual visual distortions that make no sense ( the ground is higher yet the unit has no LOS?!.
  • Curve the paths of weapons ( problematic for long range weapons )
  • Fix lighting ( we have a sun and a lightsource, so where do we cast the shadows? Do we make one half of the map unplayable?
What's more, who will do this? You? I'm certainly not doing it, and the engine devs have their hands full.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by PicassoCT » 03 Nov 2011, 23:07

http://springfiles.com/spring/spring-ma ... al32x32zip


I made such a map years ago, and noobody gave me the due creditcardnumbers.... sniff..







Im actually oppossed to the sphere shapped map by now(beeing a ridQuester of old myself) not because the idea is technical difficult but because its actually incompatible with rts games in general. It worked with popolous because popolous took out lots of the complexity.

Yeah there were ton of spells, the shaman, your adventure-dota-heroe was quite complex, but the main rts was reduced to the bones. For a reason.

People wrestling with the camera&circumstances (like in homeworld) dont play well, they are as handicapped as a StarcraftPlayer, now combine that with the auto-matize the whole game- win by not producig- domino-error that is spring gameplay and you get a monster.

So we dont do it because one of those would have to die. Either the springpart, or the popolous part. Still playin that awesome game from time to time.
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Charadin
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Charadin » 04 Nov 2011, 00:09

Af and Picasso thx of yours answers.

Smoth, i have read your answer already.
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Das Bruce
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Re: Planetary, moon or asteroid map.

Post by Das Bruce » 04 Nov 2011, 00:20

I was thinking about this and I made a basic A* pathfinder to naviagate a 2D mesh, but think about it, shouldn't the method generalise to any set of linked nodes?
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