KAIK or RAI slow to load

KAIK or RAI slow to load

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daryl
Posts: 190
Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 10:33

KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by daryl » 17 Oct 2016, 14:44

Hi all,
often I play in single player against AI (KAIK o RAI).
All the time I start a play i need to wait 1/2 minutes to play becouse my pc is loading AI.
Is this normal?
If not, do you need more info?
Thx to all!
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MasterBel2
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03

Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by MasterBel2 » 17 Oct 2016, 23:33

As far as I'm aware, yes it's normal. RAIs have to map features, metat etc. as part of their planning, and I think this was the case for KAIKs aswell.

But what game/engine are you using? Because the latest versions of Balanced Annihilation have an all new AI, ShardLua, which has much higher skill, and is a lot more reliable.

The other alternative AI is the Shard Dev, but it's a less reliable ai (but of similar skill).
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daryl
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 10:33

Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by daryl » 18 Oct 2016, 10:38

MasterBel2 wrote:As far as I'm aware, yes it's normal. RAIs have to map features, metat etc. as part of their planning, and I think this was the case for KAIKs aswell.

But what game/engine are you using? Because the latest versions of Balanced Annihilation have an all new AI, ShardLua, which has much higher skill, and is a lot more reliable.

The other alternative AI is the Shard Dev, but it's a less reliable ai (but of similar skill).
i'm playing with obsolete version of SPRING "0.89" with an old BA version modified by me
:lol:
But i see it's the same in 103 with other games... :-)
is ShardLua a free AI ?
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MasterBel2
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by MasterBel2 » 18 Oct 2016, 11:01

daryl wrote:is ShardLua a free AI ?
ShardLua comes with the newest version of BA. If you mean 'free of cost' then all AIs for all games on this engine are free.

What you could do is re-fork the BA code, i.e. take the new latest version of BA and implement similar changes as to what you had changed before. https://github.com/Balanced-Annihilatio ... ngelog.txt is a changelog history of BA, which will include the changes between the BA version you've modified and the current one. This should allow you to somewhat revert the Balance changes that you'd want reverted so it's similar to your own version of BA.

Of course, the other option is to be patient and wait for the AIs to load.

And the third option is to just come and play normal BA online with all us other guys! :wink: We always love to have more players!
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by AF » 19 Oct 2016, 18:59

When you say less reliable, can you be more specific? If you're talking game crashes then let me know ASAP with infologs, but if you're talking about gameplay that's a little different
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MasterBel2
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by MasterBel2 » 20 Oct 2016, 04:54

Both. There were some pathfinding issues with Shard that would occasionally lead to it prettey much stopping. These issues happen a lot less often with ShardLua, maybe because ShardLua is running on 103.0? I also think that Shard dev wouldn't work with other AIs not on its team, unlike ShardLua which will.

Plus Shard had this weird crash sometime after getting to t2. I'll see if I can reproduce it sometime, if I have the time.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by Forboding Angel » 20 Oct 2016, 05:29

My version of shardlua, if the bot can't build something it just gets stuck and does nothing. Very frustrating. I can't update mine to the latest cause errors abound in ailoader.lua which is less than optimal.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by AF » 28 Oct 2016, 04:03

Shard doesn't do pathfinding and relies entirely on the engine for it, unless something like sending a construction vehicle to a metal spot on a distant island it can't reach is happening, or the base is packed too tightly, it's the engines fault
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by Forboding Angel » 28 Oct 2016, 06:29

C++ shard would just go on to the next item in it's build list. Atm, if it can't build something, it just gets stuck, full stop.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by AF » 28 Oct 2016, 15:45

Ah that was more a response to MasterBel2, I'm not sure of the scope of what changed in ShardLua. I made adjustments to the main Shard codebase that would help it work on both the C++ and inside a game, but there are things from ShardLua that need backporting
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prandipadaro
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by prandipadaro » 29 Oct 2016, 14:05

in the time from 01/16 to 06/16 i have help @eronoboos also called @zoggop in the develop of shard-shardlua; he is the maintainer of the project.
The performance problems have a major fix in shardLua cause we was concentrated only on shardLua and waiting a "feature freeze" to push and test the same things on shardDev.
In fact the develop of shard for BA/BAR is totally frozen from 2 month
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by AF » 29 Oct 2016, 15:15

The performance problems have a major fix in shardLua cause we was concentrated only on shardLua and waiting a "feature freeze" to push and test the same things on shardDev.
In fact the develop of shard for BA/BAR is totally frozen from 2 month
Nobody told me this, or announced it, and it was actively used against Shard. A bug in the BA/BAR git submodule broke Shard and nobody was around to fix or answer issues, so Abma assumed it was unmaintained, and I eventually came to the same conclusion. Shard was almost booted off the engine because of the issues.

We had to revert to an earlier version of the BA/BAR code. From my point of view, all involved in ShardLua and BA/BAR disappeared and had lost interest

In terms of moving things to Shard dev, there's already infrastructure in the lua part in place that should allow Shard to run inside a game if only the API wrappers were completed ( at the moment they return failure values to indicate they haven't been implemented ). I also need input on how to separate the C++ Wrapper from the lua AI on a git level so that the engine can still have its monolithic repository, but we have a git repo that has just the lua AI, and a repo for just the C++ implementation, and a repo for bootstrapping the AI inside a game

I'm also opposed to the idea that ShardLua remains as a monolithic AI, in the same way that you would fork CRAIG or other Spring lua AIs to make changes. Forking is not the intended method of adding support for Shard, extending is, and I implemented the subfolder system and abstracted the API's out for a reason.
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prandipadaro
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Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by prandipadaro » 31 Oct 2016, 15:53

AF wrote:Nobody told me this, or announced it, and it was actively used against Shard. A bug in the BA/BAR git submodule broke Shard and nobody was around to fix or answer issues, so Abma assumed it was unmaintained, and I eventually came to the same conclusion. Shard was almost booted off the engine because of the issues.
i'm sorry, I have never been the official maintainer because I do not have the ability to fill this role.
I always referred to zoggop-eronoobos to help him and learn from him.

His disappearance is still shrouded in mystery and I do not receive news of him precisely from 6 august.

I would suffer greatly if all our efforts were trashed, but I understand that if the project is not maintained you can not add it to the game.

Now my job does not allow me to invest time on shard for at least another two months, I hope to go back and help the development of shards in January.
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abma
Spring Developer
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: KAIK or RAI slow to load

Post by abma » 16 Dec 2016, 08:45

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