SSAI

SSAI

Here is where ideas can be collected for the skirmish AI in development

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AF
AI Developer
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SSAI

Post by AF » 04 Jun 2005, 21:31

In the mean time while I harass my host for muddling up there postgre sql install and look for soemwhere else to palce darkstars in the mean time I return from my long absence to find napalms passed 600 posts I'm near to 1000, he hasnt updated em and I'm left with a mountain fo new posts to read.

And as if that werent enough nothing productive has been posted here, and people int he general forum have the nerve to call bloated textfiles an AI!

So maybe if I inspire you with a little history and nostalgia maybe you lot will coem to your senses.

http://metawire.org/~firestar/forums/viewtopic.php.htm

Page 1 of the SSAI topic. And no it doesnt ahve any of the Adaptive AI stuff and the ensuing arguement.
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat » 04 Jun 2005, 22:33

too right...this pussyout spawn AI REALLY sucks...only helps porcers coz u start with like 10k/10k :evil:
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Buggi
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Post by Buggi » 05 Jun 2005, 01:31

Lets see you do better.

If you can't, you have no right to come down so hard on dev.
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 06 Jun 2005, 05:52

Yeah, jesus Alantai. You talk big, but in reality you've done f-all.

Produce something to stand by your words, or shut up.

And min3mat, try to beat Springy AI using only units, no defenses.
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat » 06 Jun 2005, 10:13

no the MAIN problem is the starting resources (10k/10k) i would like to try BO's out in the skirmish and practice not energy/metal stalling :roll: :roll: :roll:
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munch
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Post by munch » 06 Jun 2005, 14:35

Buggi wrote:Lets see you do better.

If you can't, you have no right to come down so hard on dev.
I don't think it's so much a case of "can do better" or not. It's about what you can do right now. The current "random enemies" script is a poor AI because it's a quick hack-up... becuase lots of us kept asking for some sort of single player mode. The point is, it's better than nothing.

What amazes me is the way it plays in such a similar way to the OTA AI - you just get a constant stream of enemies which attack the nearest unit you own. Add in some basic base building code, so that it doesn't just pull the units out of thin air and you've almost got the OTA AI (which in addition would wait until it had a group of units before attacking and also would go into "emergency resource building mode" if it nano-stalled).

From the point of view of playability I'd have to agree with MinMat:
MinMat wrote:no the MAIN problem is the starting resources (10k/10k) i would like to ... practice not energy/metal stalling
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a decent AI. Though I'd want a non-cheating one myself.

Cheers

Munch
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AF
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Post by AF » 06 Jun 2005, 20:37

Warlord & buggi that was uncalled for. I have things, I have written thigns and theorized and then gone to pseudocode and then some but the fact that I have had a long period offline in which I have done this means nobody knew what I was doing.

And what have you done?!

Buggi, I was not blasting the devs, I think its good that they where considerate enough to incorporate a spawn ai such as that in v0.5, however ti is the people passing textfiles off as AI that is what I have a problem with. For once instead of writting those TAI thigns then buggering off and coming up with what I have and writting out all this stuff, why should I have bothered, why shouldnt I just bung a laoda unti names in a textfile and wait for the SY's to create a spawn AI like they have and call that an AI eh?

Time is closing, and I am soon to get a lot of free time and my broadband modem should be arriving in a week or so, so maybe then you'll see what I have to offer sooner if at all, but if you insist on behaving like that then maybe I should keep ti to myself and a few deserving people and label you all ungrateful for what you have yet to even see. I was going to post a few thigns here I was thinking before when I notice the host on darkstars has muddled their psql install but not now if I'm gonna get a reaction like that.

And do better?! I certainly shall, it's nto like it would ahve taken the SY's all there might to create something like that, and at least what I release will build a base. So what can you do then?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a decent AI. Though I'd want a non-cheating one myself.
I agree 100% munch
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » 06 Jun 2005, 22:34

If you end up with grunt work AF, such as large blocks of codes that have to be repeated, with just a single letter change, I can do that for you.
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 07 Jun 2005, 12:28

Warlord & buggi that was uncalled for. I have things, I have written thigns and theorized and then gone to pseudocode and then some but the fact that I have had a long period offline in which I have done this means nobody knew what I was doing.
Neither was this thread.

And I find your "pseudocode" and "theorised" rather funny. Mao's great leap forward anyone? Or perhaps Mussolini's fantastic theoretical plans for Rome? :wink:
Hard code. Actual product. Progress.
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AF
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Post by AF » 07 Jun 2005, 12:47

and how would you know what I've been doing. I thought it'd be nice to give you a little piece fo nostalgia or information and idea that was pretty much lost to most people, so be it if I expressed a few opinions along the way.

And in the mean time I would prefer ti if you did not try to pass me off as some contraversial leader under some political agenda or theory such as mussolinis italy or the likes of the cultural revolution in china. If we where to play that game I would say I am surrounded by the equivilant of the european old guard struggling to keep dominance over the new generation but who am I to throw around political dogmas and whoa re you either.

Dont attack my lack of forthcoming over what I have produced to cover the lack of productivity here. I would say that if me and those helping me where taken out of th epicture, with our projects that you say have not progressed and are simply in existence for social purposes, I would say babe buggi and jouninkomiko would be the hope left. Of course jounin having other things and buggi havign numerous other projects and babe being someone new who though having experience hasnt made much of his intentions clear save a single thread, I'd say we should look to the warlord and ask him where we should get our AI from if he thinks we have the luxury of taking general dissapointment in what ahs happened and turning it into a flame against oneself.

Go produce something productive and leave this thread alone, afterrall there was no need for any post here save the first.
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 08 Jun 2005, 08:02

If you knew what I was talking about instead of just googling those terms, you would realise that I was NOT calling you a fascist, or dictatorial leader.

I was making fun of the fact that you like to talk up how much you have done, when in reality, you have a big fat 0 of working code.
You regularly take part in AI discussions referring to, your AI does this, or you plan for your AI to do that, but that's all you've done - you've planned.
Hence the reference not to Mao himself, but rather his Great Leap Forward project, which was in reality a great leap back, as it was all talk and no work, meanwhile thousands starved to death.
Or Mussolini's plans for Rome to return it to its classical might - of course; he didn't actually do anything, he was all talk, and when push came to shove (allied invasion) he crumpled in a moment.

... And then you go and criticise someone who has actually done the work (the SY's) to get a basic single player mode up, and the people who put in the effort to make it fun (Gnome).

And if the only reason you posted this was for "nostalgia" then perhaps it could really be renamed "spam". It adds nothing to the AI discussion, and it can barely be considered nostalgic based on the fact that what you are recalling happened a few months ago. Looks to me more like an effort to bring attention back to yourself.
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Gnomre
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Post by Gnomre » 08 Jun 2005, 08:43

For the record, in the topic I made for the slinky spawn.txt file, I did use quotes around the word AI since I kind of realize it's not a true AI. I'm not getting involved in this flame war, though, so that's all I have to say.
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 08 Jun 2005, 10:50

See, if only I was above a little flaming every now and then...

*fetches flamethrower*
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
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Post by [K.B.] Napalm Cobra » 08 Jun 2005, 12:09

For all the insults and flames about why hasn't alantai produced anything, the true fault lies with jounin. :P . His unfortunate departure to microsoft has left us without anything to code onto.

And please be quiet Warlord Zsinj, you have added nothing of substance to this thread or even this project project.
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 08 Jun 2005, 15:24

See, if I add nothing to the total sum of this thread, its result is still 0.

The real issue is if I divide this thread by its worth...

And Napalm, I haven't gone running around claiming to have done such and such for Spring. I can think of ideas and express my opinions, and that's about it. I don't think that I haven't added anything to Spring, but tangibly, I haven't physically added anything to spring, no. But I don't claim to have either.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm » 08 Jun 2005, 15:34

Warlord Zsinj said
Hard code. Actual product. Progress.
Yep... so have you ever seen someone make a computer out of metal ore? Or a sandwitch out of corn? Nope. you can make a computer out just the raw metal, but most normal people infact use ready made parts to build one.

Alantai is basicly waiting for the parts he needs so he can actully start work on it. Sure he could in therory make back end changes to spring but then why when jounin has said he is putting an AI interface?

And hes got a point that the bloated Text file isn't an AI, although maybe he was a bit blunt... He's not criticiseing the fact that the SY's and Gnome made the spawn "AI" just saying it isn't AI.

aGorm

(getting tired of everyone laying into Alantai? i know I am...)
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » 08 Jun 2005, 20:50

We're working on it. Let's leave it at that shall we? Can we get a mod to lock this topic?
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 09 Jun 2005, 03:55

All right, all right. I've had my fun. I'll be off now.

But really, its not like people get fed up with Alantai for no reason... Let's not forget the spam incident shortly before Spring came out.
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AF
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Post by AF » 09 Jun 2005, 12:59

You brought that on yourselves with those who where ruining evrythign and bringing us all down, at least ebcause of my small tirade against the forum people sat up and took action to make the forum a better place.

But really I think you should let the past go warlord and stop trying to make me pay for a week of random posting and delirious pm's.

As for hard code, that si a work in progress I shall not comment on but I will say that code exists and is being worked on. Now if you want to judge me on what you see fine by all means but if you want to say that all you have seen is all I have done then bugger off somewhere and dont come back.

Oh and btw odd how many people are fed up with me because of flames where they misunderstood what I said originally or joined other people flaming me.
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munch
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Post by munch » 09 Jun 2005, 14:00

Alantai,

don't get drawn in by this guy - I've no idea what he's refering to, because I haven't been here that long, but if he wants to rant and criticise, let him make a fool of himself - you're not answerable to him.

And yes, I agree with you that code under development or not, it's getting the ideas straight that matters most. The fun bit is the design - coming up with the ideas to solve the problems. Actuallly writing the code is usually a trivial thing compared to getting the ideas behind it right.

All the best

Munch
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